M1903A1 (1929–1939): changed from a straight stock to a pistol grip type stock (Type C stock). The pistol grip stock was conducive to improved marksmanship and was fitted to National Match rifles until World War II. Pistol grip stocks became standard for later M1903 production and were subsequently fitted to older rifles. The Army considered any rifle with a pistol grip stock an M1903A1, but M1903 receiver markings were unchanged
so if they used old tooling that was stored in 1919 they are stock M1903.
In this case, the markings are still those of a M1903, but the gun itself might as well be an M1903A1. It’s like an overstamp Thompson but someone forgot to stamp over the last 1 in 1921. Not changing the markings doesn’t make it an M1921 Thompson, the overstamp change makes it an M1928, regardless of what the markings say. The same can be applied in this case, the M1903s may have had stock M1903 markings, but otherwise they are functionally M1903A1s and should be considered such.
according to that source, they used old tooling that made original stock M1903, not M1903A1. tooling was stored in 1919, so it is way before they made M1903A1. it is not overstamp. basically they used old tools to make old parts to assemble old M1903. later they made simplifications and used stamped metal to make M1903A3.
also it is worth mentioning this
M1903 (modified) (1941–1942): transition production of M1903 rifles by Remington Arms until the M1903A3 design was implemented involved modification of various parts creating a hybrid between the M1903 and M1903A3
Yes but according to your other source, those M1903s were modified to have the M1093A1 pistol grip, making them M1903A1s. It’s impossible to sat exactly when this transition was fully completed, but it’s a safe bet to say that it was completed before 1944. Furthermore, I still cannot find any records of stock M1903s in Army or Marine service in 1941 or 1942, so what likely happened was the stock rifles were given to entities like the National Guard and Coast Guard in exchange for their stock of later model M1903s and other weapons. The stock M1903 did not see service in either the Marines or the Army in WW2.
tell me where i have quoted that. only time where pistol grip is mentioned is in actual M1903A1 which was produced from 1929-1939.
also it is mentioned here
when production started in 1941 they produced stock M1903, but as tooling got worn out and they replaced them with new tools and redesigned parts to work with stamped metal. that is why you have hybrid between M1903 and M1903A3 (aka M1903 (modified)).
so overall this response was to this
idk where they were exactly used, but they made 330k M1903 and M1903 (modified) for war purposes.
also
According to Bruce Canfield’s U.S. Infantry Weapons of WW II, final variants of the M1903 (the A3 and A4) were delivered in February 1944. By then, most American combat troops had been re-equipped with the M1 Garand. However, some front-line infantry units in both the U.S. Army and Marine Corps retained M1903s as infantry rifles beyond that date and continued to use them alongside the M1 Garand until the end of the war in 1945.
I have seen reports and images of the M1903s that saw active combat, and none of them were the stock M1903. Snipers used the M1903A4, and some standard infantry men insisted on keeping their M1903A1 or using M1903A3s, but never a stock M1903. As far as I know, not a single stock M1903 saw active combat in WW2.
overall you quoted description of production of M1903A1 that were produced from 1929-1939, so it is no wonder they have pistol stock of M1903A1 and not of 330k M1903s that were produced from 1941-1942. btw that quote was to disprove that new run with tooling that was stored in 1919 had anything to do with M1903A1 that was produced from 1929-1939.
overall stock M1903s were produced until later replaced with M1903A3. where stock M1903s and hybrid M1903s were used idk. but they were used somewhere in US armed forces considering that 330k were produced. M1903A3 would probably be better fit for normandy as starting weapon rather than stock M1903, but i dont have any information of stock M1903 presence or its lack of in normandy.
By 1941, the U.S. government had taken steps to increase production of the semi-automatic M1 Garand rifle, but it was apparent that other sources of rifles were needed. It was decided to resume production of the bolt-action M1903 since the tooling to produce the rifle was still available.
Springfield Armory, however, was heavily burdened with Garand production, and the Rock Island Arsenal had long since ceased manufacture of the ‘03, and was involved with other war-production projects. Fortunately, the production tooling for the M1903 rifles was still stored at Rock Island. After some negotiations with the Ordnance Dept., the Remington Arms Co. accepted a contract to produce the M1903 rifle for the government.
Remington transported the Rock Island tooling to its plant, and by November 1941, production of the M1903 Springfield was underway. Remington marked its rifles with the company name on the receiver and the initials “RA” and the date of production on the barrel. The early Remington ‘03s were essentially identical to Rock Island Springfield rifles made during World War I, and they were made with the same quality materials and craftsmanship.
Remington engineers, working with Ordnance officials, proposed several time-cutting changes, including substituting simple, stamped-metal components for some formerly milled or forged components, modifying the stock to save production time and eliminating some non-essential parts completely, resulting in the “U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, M1903 (Modified).” Additional changes to decrease manufacturing time, as well as the addition of an adjustable aperture rear sight mounted on the receiver, resulted in the adoption of the “U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, Model of 1903A3” on May 21, 1942. Remington made M1903A3s from December 1942 until production ceased in February 1944, as well as 1903A4 sniper rifles.
This is pretty much same as if I ask all good stuff removed from soviets and im willing to sacrifice shovel from germans.
Not at all biased.
Yeah, soviets were very good to build large quantities of shit.
But unlike usually, once they figured out it is shit they pretty much replaced it from production with
Moist-nugget. So good rifle that it got replaced by BA.
Dont really have to at this point.
If your saying your not even asking for historical accuracy which theorically would be only reasonable thing in your idiotic requests. It pretty much removes everything that could be even remotely considered as rational thought.
Leaving nothing but rather clear soviet bias in the table.
So after all it seems you indeed are rather obvious soviet main.
Feel free to find any equipment from any side, and if it wasn’t adopted by the respective military I’ll always say it should not be added.
Transparent as it can be.
“not even soviet union wanted them”
` they made 1.75 mil
“ok but buut akshually it was replaced by BA”
So you put words in my mouth and started trying to counter them?
That’s a lil bish move, bro
Like having different opinions is fine. But being a lil bish isn’t.
Yeah, well if you wouldnt have kindly decided to become a soviet main the historical accuracy would have remained relevant to subject and just to be nice I would have had to go thru your logs and quote your arguments in historical accuracy related topics.
But since you decided to come out of closet the historical accuracy became rather irrelevant to subject.
Thanks tho, quite pointless to prolong this conversation about soviet maining since you kindly decided to admit it yourself.
ive got plenty of options, I live in the west you know.
You mean like the fedorovs / t-50’s in moscow ? Which most likely is your main campaign as for some odd reason you seem to find most excuses for nonexistent soviet equipments there.
Cmon now, why would I cry over some soviet fanboy ?
Sure, or I can say I support both. Lots of options.
Except ofc id be lying if I said I support russia.
Easy to remove equipments you dont use or even better dont play the campaign at all.
I dont really see you asking removing fedorovs / t-50’s rather making shit excuses why they should exist.
Which most likely is due to moscow being ur favorite campaign.
Oh wow, you really went for heavy bombardment straight away boy.
The number was bigger by 1945. The production numbers depend on sources (between 1940 and 1942) and even then the Soviets didnt hand it out to every red army pleb but to more skilled forces. Not to mention that the Germans probably captured a lot of those rifles which would make the rifle even less common than it already was among the common soldier.
The SVT-38 saw mostly usage in the Winter War where the Soviets found out that the guns sucks and stopped production in 1940.
Oh youd be surprised how many things in west doesnt end up in summer camp at siperia, accidentally slipping from 6th floor, doing suicide by inhaling polonium or just doing suicide by stabbing youself to back with knife when conveniently all cameras were offline.
Sure, I dont mind removing all soviet equipment.
See ?
Oh boy cant wait.
Yeah, 2 years ago.
I still dont have to, since you kindly decided to come out of closet as soviet main.
