A different way of balancing mortars: Grenadiers

Mortars are OP
Mortars are UP

Everyone seems to have a conflicted opinions on mortars and how they should be balanced.

On one hand, the positives:

  • You can shell targets in a kind of safety that’s more secure than bombing the point with planes- You can’t be easily spotted, only heard, moreso if you’re in the backlines.
  • You can deny a point without warning, unlike planes, tanks and artillery, and you do so almost-instantly, unlike planes who have to line up their run and artillery, which needs time to fire.
  • Relatively simple to use. Just point the mortar at a target, adjust the range, and fire.

On the other, the negatives:

  • You only have a limited amount of shots, and with a recent update, refills. One refill will take up the entire ammo crate, and remaking the ammo crate is both time-consuming, and limited.
  • Efficient usage of the mortar necessitates engineers in the squad to build ammo crates, in the first place, meaning mortars require either an initial investment, or a painful early grind.
  • If the mortar squad wants to keep its position fixed, it needs to retain its squad members, most importantly, engineers, nearby, meaning it is not an active participant in battle.
  • While simple to use, it cannot be used on targets with hard overhead cover, moreover, while it is easy to aim, it is very difficult to land hits with, as it is reliant on player knowledge of enemy movements, markers and terrain.
  • It is unlocked at 2-digit campaign levels, meaning that attempting to level it up is lengthier than regular combat squads, which is compounded by its limited strength as a squad that’s essentially a group of riflemen, with no unique merits or unlocks for its dedicated mortarman.
  • As a specialist squad, mortarmen, unlike radiomen, cannot be used outside its designated squad.
  • Against maps with a lot of overhead cover, like urban terrain, it is of marginal use, and the rapid playstyle of conquest means it is impractical to field in those game modes, limiting its optimum use to invasion and assault game modes- In squads. In lone fighter, it is almost irrelevant without foreknowledge of an enemy location, and only has very limited effect considering how spaced players are in LF.

People have proposed:

  • Smoke shells - Which would heavily skew balance in invasion/assault game modes in favor of attackers.
  • Mortarmen in regular squads - Which would make the mortar squad obsolete, and propagate its negative reputation as being instant-artillery, but unlike radiomen, it doesn’t have a cooldown attached, nor a warning circle to indicate its hits.

My idea is a bit drastic, but hear me out. Considering that the implementation of light mortars in a relatively fast-paced game that requires a lot of prepation, and knowledge to properly use, why don’t we simply replace the class in a way that:

  • Doesn’t require much preparation to use, meaning no obligatory engineer to stay half-relevant in a match.
  • Can be introduced to other squads, similar to bombers and radiomen.
  • Doesn’t promote a passive playstyle that involves hanging back in the map.
  • Doesn’t require the introduction of new strange mechanics.
  • Doesn’t require a map rebalance, unlike suggested smoke shells.
  • Is fairer to counter, as it promotes the class moving forward, instead of being safely hidden away until hit by stray gunfire, or ordnance.
  • But retains anti-infantry power against groups and fortifications, in an organic way, which were a mortar’s intended role.

Grenadiers.

There’s a myriad of grenade-launching weapons in-game, however, they’re currently locked to troopers, and, are usually unlocked in the middle of a campaign at a price of 2 silvers a weapon, where they are in looming danger of being phased out by soon-to-be-unlocked 3-silver weaponry.

So why not simply give it its own class? There are many grenade-launching weapons in history- Not just “your standard faction bolt-action rifle + launcher” combo.

Historically, we have grenade launcher devices that can be adapted to not just fit the standard rifle, but multiple weapons. We have the Gewehrgranatengerät, which is usually seen on K98s, but also on FG 42s and early StG 44 variants had the ability to get these mounted, even if they were eventually cancelled or rendered obsolecent, like the in-game dyakonov grenade launcher.

Grenadier variant springfield rifles, M1 carbines, M1 garands- Enough to fill a progression/unlock tree similar to regular combat troops. Even strange prototypes like the Kulakov grenade launcher by the soviets:

image

Now, how would this work when implementing it as an in-game class?

  • The grenadier’s weapon unlocks should be further down the progression tree than regular trooper weapon unlocks, so grenadiers aren’t a Trooper+1 unit
  • Similar to present rifle grenades and mortarmen, only the player can use rifle grenades, and they cannot be refilled at ammo crates, nor have their capacity be increased with backpack slots.
  • For cases where grenadiers need a dedicated weapon like the pictured Kulakov grenade launcher above, they will have a level-appropriate weapon in their primary slot, and their secondary slot will be the grenade launcher
  • For cases where the grenade-launcher tool is an already-existing weapon that fires a different warhead from its bomber version (Like having an HE instead of HEAT warhead, for weapons like the sturmpistole/grb 39), the HE variant is exclusive to the grenadier class, while the HEAT/AT weapons is exclusive to the bomber class.

In my opinion, there’s really no place for light mortars in the game. It’s campy, unfair, niche and boring to use. Replacing it with this is my best idea for reworking them, because indirect fire Is better off dropped by planes, which are at least self-sufficient and radio strikes, which are more widespread, and more balanced at area denial.

Thoughts?

5 Likes

Mortar are op my friend have another opionion
image

That’s a good way to place pros and cons of mortars.
But, currently does a bomber do the job you are proposing? A piat or a panzerfaust isn’t a grenade launcher. But, if you played in alpha, you would know the power of the panzershrek and said grenade launchers you propose would be as op or unbalance like said panzershreks were.

Here. Have an example :
(you can also check at 3.20ish time how mortars used to work. Imo they were more fun to use then.

The panzerfausts apears after. Any type of grenade launcher or rocket launchers are kinda too efective in this game against infantry. . Even current rifle grenade launchers are efective, but reload times and such are meh…

Piats, panzerfausts and Sturmpistol not so much blast damage.

Anyway, both mortars and Flametrowers shall apear on other squad types tech trees so we can see them more on the batlefield. And even snipers shall too. So we can see them more on later campaigns and not only by players starting the campaigns.

I use sturm pistole like a granade luncher if i have a huge group of enemy in front of me

Well, does it payoff?

Yes payoff aganaist bot
Actually with sturmpistole i found a trick if you shoot the center parts of the tracks of a tank you are able to one shoot the tank same with piat and panzerfaust and panzershreek at rifle instead disable the tank but don kill him

I think hte current mortar squad is fine - it reflects how they were used IRL - as seperate support squads, and and the amount of ammo available to a fully upgraded squad with all the engineers is roughly in line with what we know a British 2" mortar squad had available both in itself and as immediate reserve (actually you get more in game - but it’s not by a massivce amount).

Add smoke - Brits carried about 40% smoke rounds - and it’s pretty good.

Doesn’t need change IMO

4 Likes

I didn’t know they planned that, are you absolutely positive? This would add even more versatility to squad composition, nice.

The only thing I would change about mortars is to add an option to order your bots to shoot so you don’t have to mess with range settings.
They can’t be spammed any more (thankfully) and they can be great weapon when used properly (to “snipe” AA gun for example or to set a barrage between the point and the enemy).

I’ve really noticed the extra morter fire today, it’s pretty much unbearable for the Germans who are usually the attackers in the Moskow campaign which I mostly play now.

There is still just way too much explosive spam in this game.

I dont see how the devs ever thought it was ok to have so much. Imo they need to get rid of arty and have mortars only. Morters take more skill to use, while a chimp could order arty strikes.Also, wtf are our plane nerfs? These devs have made this a vehicle and other explosives game when it was advertised as as a, " squad based military shooter."

They are not listening to our complaints and just keep adding to the problem by adding more vehicles, vehicle buffs, and PP SMG’s

IYea, its basically unplayable right now, even Moskow.

1 Like

There’s still too much explosive spam but that’s mostly due to planes now and the occasional tanker hiding in the magic zone where you can’t reach him because reasons. Mortars and artillery have been rightfully nerfed.

Shaped charge AT weapons don’t exactly have much explosive power for use against broader targets from what I observed. They’re less powerful than a grenade since they don’t seem to have a cloud of shrapnel, only an effective blast area around the point of impact.

Meanwhile, we could have these HE launchers have shrapnel and a blast effect so they’re actually useful against troops.

The have plenty of explosion in every direction - there’s plenty of videos around - eg see 0.10 and 6.40 on this one:

No no. In-game. What I’m saying is that while it is possible to use the existing sturmpistole and PIAT to derp enemy infantry, it is not as potent as a grenade because they don’t have the blast for it.

In short, to avoid role overlap, bombers will have HEAT warheads with less effect on infantry, but grenadiers would have HE that is only effective against infantry.