Like usual, i’d like to preface this post with a disclaimer that no, this is not a ‘germoney suffer’ post. This isn’t a major complaint really, just something i’d noticed that stuck out to me more lately.
I’d been somewhat aware of this for a while now, but it never stuck out enough to me to make a forum post and ask for others’ experience. Over the past week or so i’ve been running into more and more BT-7s and T-50s in my Pz. III E.
While the T-50 is, as expected, essentially unkillable, the BT-7 is thin-skinned and quite easy to kill, same as the T-26. The real issue i’ve run into these tanks isn’t them being unkillable, or that their guns are too strong. What’s digging at me is that the 45mm 20-K cannon seems absurdly fast-firing.
The Pz. III’s 37mm KwK seems to load and fire 1 round every 3 seconds, or somewhere near that time. The 45mm 20K seems to load and fire a round every second, or slightly below 1 second. The only reasoning I can seem to find for this is that the 20K has a ‘semiautomatic’ breech, which opens after firing automatically.
However, try as I might, i can’t find any information that would paint the 20K’s firerate at 1 round/second. The round of the 20K is both larger and heavier than that of the 37mm KwK, which has a manual breech. This would mean that, despite not needing to open the breech and eject the case, more time should be spent maneuvering the new shell into place and loading it.
While i don’t really expect anything to change, a change to be suggested would be to reduce the speed of the 20K cannon’s reload to 1 round every 2 or 3 seconds. It’s a much larger round compared to the 37mm, so even being able to be fired at the same speed as the KwK would mean it’s still superior overall.
As for exact total shell weights, what information I have found shows the PzGr. APHE shell is roughly 2.9-3lbs (1.31-36KG) and the BR-240 APHE round is around 5lbs (2.2-3kg).
This is for total shell weight, including casing, projectile, and powder load, to be excessively clear.
the reload for a bt-7 is 2.9 seconds which is the same time for an ace bt-7 to reload in war thunder
possibly, I can’t say. I know the Pz. III E’s stated reload speed is also 2.9 seconds, but the BT-7 has proven demonstrably faster in every head-to-head fight i’ve had with one.
what could be happening is that they are knocking out your loader with the first shot which does increase your reload time, but i’ll have to time it in practice to see the actual reload when i get the chance
I’ve taken that into consideration, which is why i’ve tried to pay far closer attention to fights where we both miss our first shots. What may be happening is that for some reason, the Pz. III E’s loader is not counting as present for the reload bonus, OR that the stated reload of the BT-7 is incorrect by mistake. The former might make sense, since i’ve been having more trouble with them than ever this past week.
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Or maybe it’s just confirmation bias.
A video showing the comparison would be useful - if only on the training ground.
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ok so i record and timed the reload for bt-7 and it’s 3 seconds
Which is about what the OP found for the 37mm - so I suggest it’s a bit of confirmation bias, which is pretty common around here… sadly 
… but at least you got to get good info and can put it away now.
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You have a few details wrong. The 45 does indeed shoot very fast - Not sure if it’s too fast though. You used the E-panzer as an example; Notice it has about twice the armor of the BT-7, and is still the fastest tank in the entire campaign.
What this means, is that the German panzer (turret and chassis) is almost impervious to frontal Russian cannon fire. You already have the advantage in these matchups imo, including against the larger-gunned t-28 which doesn’t use proper armor piercing shells.
If they changed it to fire at the same speed as the KwK it would make the Russian tanks even worse. And that’s not even considering the two best German tanks, the E-type (best armor of the campaign) and J-type (best cannon of the campaign (imo, shrapnel has uses))… So yea, not sure about this one!
The rates of fire for the 37 and 45 are effectively identical at ~1 shot per 3 seconds.
I was going by OP’s information heh, hadn’t read the rest of the thread.
the Pz. E only has 35mm of turret armor, and is absolutely vulnerable to the 45mm rounds the T-26, T50, and BT-7 use. I’ve had my turret penetrated multiple times frontally. The T-28 doesn’t even need to hit me dead-on to kill me. The only gun that the E will shrug off completely is 20mm cannon fire.
Edit: I’ve doublechecked, and i’m correct in that the only scenario the 20-K cannot penetrate 35mm of armor is at ranges exceeding 1 KM, of which no enlisted map exceeds.
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Keep in mind there is that bug where you can fire before you finish reloading in some instances, I don’t think it has been fixed yet, you might be on the receiving end of that. It can shave a few seconds off reloading I have seen.
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maybe, and it could be confirmation bias, but i swear that i’ve run into BT-7s firing at obscene speeds.
I dont think we should try to make this a 1-1 game.
One of the charms in my opinion, is that each country have its own strengths and weaknesses.
If we are to even all that out, we might aswell go and play one of the many other shooters around.
I also have personal experience with the bug Raserenus mentioned. Invisible (from shooter perspective at least) extra shots when spam clicking. I know they go off because people die from them. Even made a thread on it a few days ago. Maybe that is what you’re experiencing.
I might have some of the German hulls confused, they look almost identical head-on. Hard to know what I’m shooting at sometimes. That being said, you tested using the three German tanks I did not mention, instead of the two I was talking about. Both the III-J and the IV-E are much better armored, and will withstand frontal 45mm hits.
Perhaps we got the III-E and the IV-E mixed up?
the one i’m experiencing this in lately has been the III E yeah, I don’t have the J unlocked in moscow yet.
The issue is that you can fire on their turret with the 37 and sometimes only wound a crewmember, while the 45 almost always kills everyone in the whole turret.
Its ridiculous how much damage the 45 does to even large tanks like panzer 4’s.
I believe you’ll have much better luck once you unlock one of the other two. They are the “final tier” and perform much more reliably. I’d argue the “early” tiers are flimsy and weak in tank vs. tank battles for all factions.
I disagree with Zeno’s post about turret penetration. The Panzer 4 is worse armored than the 3E, and the only way to pen the turret reliably with a 45 is to shoot it where it attaches to the body, damaging the ring (and sometimes exploding ammo, depending on angle).
In other words, the Pz.IV-E has great offensive capabilities, but unreliable defense, especially when flanked.
The Pz.III-J has slightly weaker offensive capabilities, but makes up for it with better armor. It outclasses the T-50 in every way except speed.
