Based, i wanna commit war crimes against the allied side of this campaign
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In all seriousness. Extremely well written post. Was worth reading. I would love a pacific and china campaign
10 Likes
+1
but wouldn’t something like Beijing or Nanking be more appropriate?
iirc those are the battles where China had some Panzer Is and CV-33s yet.
Of course something like ichi-go could give them the M2A4 as well.
Personally, I wanted to play Shanghai SNLF squadron 
Also, Chinese Vickers 6-ton tank with 47 mm cannon is very attractive. It will be good counter of Japanese Type 89 medium tank.
3 Likes
Very nice post +1.
I was working on a post like that as well but as to not to let the work I allready did go to waste I´ll add it in the comments here:
Campaign Suggestion: Early 2nd Sino Japanese War
The 2nd Sino Japanese war is a very Interesting but rarely if ever covered conflict starting in 1937 and continuing until the end of World war two. I believe that one of the strengths of this game can be to actually cover the rarely talked about conflicts and this is definitely one of them. In order to not Overlap too much with other campaigns I think it should focus on the Early War 1937-1940.
Notes:
Instead of having the Axe as a tier 2 melee weapon I’d suggest the guntō for the Japanese and the Miaodao for the Chinese (both are swords).
Furthermore, there will be no Anti-Tank-Infantry class in this campaign due to the lack of Infantry carried anti tanks weapons.
The first tank Squad should should mostly focus on tankettes and light tanks as they were by the most common. The Second Tank Squad should should have the strongest tanks available during the conflict.
I´d also avoid adding semi Auto Rifles.
Chinese Progression:
The Chinees generally had a large verity of weapons in use. They bought/produced them during or before the war or received them as military aid, this makes them a very interesting faction.
Standard rifle: Hanyang 88; a Chinese produced version of the Gewehr 1888 with some modifications like a removed barrel shroud (Should be the weapon all new soldiers have)
Hand grenade: Chinese Stilhandgranate; a Chinese produced version of the M24 Stilhandgranate
AT-Mine: Tellermine 35 (Bought from Germany)
(Molotov cocktails and TNT Packs should also be available)
Pistols:
Level 5: Mauser C96
Level 8: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless
Level 11: FN Browning M1900
Level 14: Mauser Model 1914
Starting Squads (Campaign Level 1):
Infantry Squad
Gun: Chiang Kai-Shek rifle (Karabiner 98k) Chinese produced version of the Kar 98k, it was intended to replace the Hanyang 88.
Sniper Squad
Gun: Type 97 Sniper Rifle (Captured from the Japanese)
Tank Squad
Tank: L3/35 (Dual MG Version)
Campaign Level 2:
Assault Squad
SMG: Mauser M712 „Schnellfeuer“ a fully automatic version of the C96 pistol with a 20 round box magazine and a removable holster stock. It and the Spanish Astra versions were very popular in China at the time. Domestic copies were also produced.
Campaign Level 3:
Engineer squad:
Gun: Type 21 carbine (copy of the Belgian FN Model 1930) the Original gun was also imported in large numbers.
AT-Gun: Type 30 anti-tank gun (A Chinese Version of the German PaK 36) the PaK 36 was also bought from Germany directly
AA-Gun: Hotchkiss M1929 machine gun (twin-barrel version)
Campaign level 4:
Fighter Squadron
Plane: Polikarpov I-15bis
Campaign Level 5:
Gun: MP-18: Imported and locally produced versions usually in 7.63×25mm Mauser. Modifications with a bottom feeding vertical magazine with top ejection existed (maybe better than a simple copy/paste model).
Campaign Level 6:
Radio Squad
Gun: Vz. 24: large numbers of those guns were imported.
Campaign Level 7:
CAS Squadron
Plane: Henschel Hs 123 (bought from Germany)
Campaign Level 8:
Tank: AMR 35 with a 13.2 mm Hotchkiss machinegun (bought from France)
Campaign Level 9:
MG Squad:
Gun: Hotchkiss M1922 machine gun (Strip Fed in 7.92x57 mm)
Campaign Level 10:
Flamethrower Squad
Gun: Type 93 flamethrower (Captured from the Japanese)
Campaign Level 11:
Gun: ZB 26 Machine Gun in 7.92x57 mm
Campaign Level 12:
Infatry Squad 2
Gun: Hanyang 88 with Type 28 Rifle Grenade Launcher
Campaign Level 13:
Tank: Sd.Kfz. 222 (bought from Germany)
Campaign Level 14:
Motar Squad
Mortar: Type 27 Grenade Discharger simplified Chinese copy of the Japanese Type 89 50 mm motar
Campaign Level 15:
Fighter Squadron 2
Plane: Polikarpov I-16 Type 10
Campaign Level 16:
Sniper Squad 2
Gun: Mosin–Nagant 1891/30 with PU/PE Scope; large numbers of those rifle were received as part of Soviet military aid (It is not unlikely that some scope made their way to china as well).
Campaign Level 17:
CAS Squadron 2
Plane: Vultee V-11
Campaign Level 18:
Assault Squad 2
Gun: Thomson SMG (A large amount of Thomson SMGs was purchased as well as domestic copies produced, both in 45 ACP and 7.63x25 mm Mauser.
Campaign Level 19:
MG Squad 2:
Gun: Neuhausen KE-7 a swiss produced LMG in 7.92*57mm with a 25/50 round magazine. Over 2500 were bought and several thousand copies were produced.
Campaign Level 20:
Tank Squad 2
Tank: Vickers Mark E Type B with the short 3-pdr gun (bought from Britain)
Campaign Level 21:
Engineer Squad 2
Gun: Chiang Kai-Shek rifle with HY1935 bayonet attached
MG Position: M1917 Browning
Campaign Level 22:
Mortar Squad 2:
Mortar: Type 20 mortar a Chinese Version of the 81mm Brandt Mle 27/31
Campaign Level 23:
Tank: T26 was received as military aid from the soviets.
Premium Squad:
A Tank Squad with a BA-27 Adored Car, some were Supplied as Military aid
Japanese Progression:
Standard rifle: Arisaka type 38 rifle (Should be the weapon all new soldiers have)
Hand grenade: Type 97 grenade
AT-Mine: Type 99 mine
(Molotov cocktails and TNT Packs should also be available)
Pistols:
Level 5: Type 14 Nambu
Level 8: Type 26 Revolver
Level 11: Type 94 Nambu
Level 14: Hamada Type 1 pistol
Starting Squads (Campaign Level 1):
Infantry Squad
Gun: Arisaka Type 99 Rifle
Sniper Squad
Gun: Type 97 Sniper Rifle (type 38 rifle with a scope mounted)
Tank Squad
Tank: Type 94 tankette (Late Variant with a 7.7 mm MG)
Campaign Level 2:
Assault Squad
SMG: SIG M/20 Essentially a swiss produced MP-18 used against the Chinese
Campaign Level 3:
Engineer Squad
Gun: Type I Rifle, a Italian produced rifle using the carcano action in combination with a Mauser style internal magazine but firing 6.5×50mmSR.
AT Gun: Type 94 37 mm anti-tank gun
AA Gun: Type 93 machine gun (twin-barrel version) Japanese license production of the Hotchkiss M1929
Campaign Level 4:
Fighter Squadron
Plane: Kawasaki Ki-10
Campaign Level 5:
Gun: MP34 (swiss production gun)
Campaign Level 6:
Radio Squad:
Gun: Type Mo III rifle (Essentially bought Vz 24 rifles)
Campaign Level 7:
CAS Squadron
Plane: Kawasaki Ki-32
Campaign Level 8:
Tank: Type 92 Tankette (Version armed with a 13.2 mm MG in the hull and a 7.7 mm MG in the Turret)
Campaign Level 9:
MG Squad:
Gun: Type 11 light machine gun
Campaign Level 10:
Flamethrower Squad
Gun: Type 93 flamethrower
Campaign Level 11:
Gun: Type 96 light machine gun
Campaign Level 12:
Infantry Squad 2
Gun: Type 38 Rifle with Type 2 rifle grenade launcher
Campaign Level 13:
Typ 95 Ha-Gō
Campaign Level 14:
Motar Squad
Mortar: Type 89 50 mm mortar
Campaign Level 15:
Fighter Squadron 2
Plane: Nakajima Ki-27b Improved version with mounting points for 4x 25 Kg Bombs
Campaign Level 16:
Sniper Squad 2
Gun: Type 99 Sniper Rifle with 4x Scope
Campaign Level 17:
CAS Squadron 2
Plane: Aichi D3A1
Campaign Level 18:
Assault Squad 2
Gun: Experimental Model 2 submachine gun, limited production saw some service during the 2nd Sino Japanese war.
Campaign Level 19:
MG Squad 2
Gun: Type 99 light machine gun, similar to the type 96 but firing the more powerful 7.7×58mm Round.
Campaign Level 20:
Tank Squad 2
Tank: Type 89 I-Go
Campaign Level 21:
Engineer Squad 2
Gun: Gun: Type 99 rifle with Type 30 bayonet attached
MG Position: Type 92 heavy machine gun
Campaign Level 22:
Mortar Squad 2
Mortar: Type 97 81 mm infantry mortar
Campaign Level 23:
Tank: Type 97 Chi-Ha (57 mm Gun version)
Premium Squad:
A Tank Squad with a Type 97 Te-Ke Tankette
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No, we need Japanese and Americans in the Pacific. Katana and Banzai!
Nope
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China is way more balanced against Japan
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Your idea is also nice! I’m a little happy because besides me have idea about unique melee weapons.
I have few questions about Chinese weapon:
- Did Chinese not have own sniper rifle? I’ve heard they imported lots of European rifles so I thought they imported sniper variant, too.
- Did Chinese use Miaodao during the war? I thought they used Dadao because there’re march for them and that sword was popular war trophy in Japan (they misunderstand it is famous Yanyuedao).
大刀進行曲 Dadao March (Big Sword March) | 抗戰歌曲 - YouTube
by the way, Ki-27 (Type 97 fighter) did not have 12.7 mm machine gun.
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- As far as I am aware there was No “Offical” Sniper Rifle, most likely there were adaptaions of the commonly available rifles with comercially available scopes, but is really hard to find good information/sources on stuff like this. So It might be the safest rute to go with captured/supplied equipment unless someone finds information on that.
- Yeah good point i think i might have misidentified it in some photos i saw, the Dadao makes the most sense to have ingame.
Thank you for the correction I´ll edit that in my comment
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commercially-available scopes in 1930s China seems doubtful to me. I would assume they would’ve needed to import them from Germany or Italy, but who knows how well they would survive the trip.
From what I can remember, most of the Panzer Is and CV-33s China ordered arrived damaged in some way, and those are tanks
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I made a list of military forces fought during Battle of Shanghai.
Due to I can’t edit my own post strangely, I decided to post it on google documents.
Unfortunately, I don’t know well about Chinese army so list of Chinese side are from Wikipedia. But, list of Japanese side data are came from Japanese official war history (戦史叢書) so Japanese side data will be reliable.
Note, In that time Japanese Army/Navy (and probably Chinese Army) did not had any insignia like European. Currently game shows their insignia as a mark of platoons but if implement east-Asian warfare, developers will be need to modify this system.
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A little idea: We might as well remove the snipers from both armies because In case of Japan, Type 97 sniper rifle was not adopted yet, and in case of China it is uncertain that they had it.
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As you know, motorcycles are implemented in Tunisia campaign.
Japanese Shanghai SNLF also equipped motorcycles with armed sidecar. It will be very interesting addition for this campaign, too!
Japanese had two types of sidecar: Type 93 Motorcycle with Sidecar (九三式側車附自動二輪車) and Type 97 Motorcycle with Sidecar (九七式側車附自動二輪車). Strangely English Wikipedia says " A variation was also manufactured without a side car, called the Type 93", but as Japanese name shown, both motorcycle have sidecar.
These motorcycles were licensed production of Harley-Davidson’s motorcycle, but some improvements for military uses were added. Also, in case of Type 97, not only motorcycle’s wheel but also side car’s wheel was driven.
In case of Shanghai SNLF, driver and crew of this vehicle equipped submachineguns.
Also, this photo is very interesting. In this photo there are 6 types of armored fighting vehicles of the Shanghai SNLF. (note: They also operated late model of Type 89 tank mod.A)
Photos came from this book:
吉川和篤 [Yoshikawa Kazunori], 2012 “上海海軍特別陸戦隊写真集 [Photo album of the Shanghai Navy Special Land Force]”, Dai Nippon Kaiga [大日本絵画]
ISBN-13 : 978-4499231039
ttps://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4499231035/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_0S8CZZFT5ZZAS9NNQTB6
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Amazing post, please add this guy to you Dev team,
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Been waiting forever for a WWII game to acknowledge that China was even in the war. And Shanghai was the Stalingrad of the Sino-Japanese War, which was in turn the longest (in terms of distance and time) running front of the war. Would play the shit out of this.
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Additional interesting images
I find several interesting images. I think they are very interesting to know about the battlefield!
Fortress around Shanghai
Note: I don’t know Chinese name. Now, in Japan it is called Seeckt line. Name is came from German military adviser, Hans von Seeckt.
Pillbox
Photo source (blog)
Photo source (blog)
Watchtower?
Photo source (blog)
Uncompleted Pillbox
Photo source (Kyoto University Library Archive)
Shanghai SNLF Headquarter Building
Colorized photo on postcard, before the war
This building was build in 1927 for headquarter of Shanghai SNLF for the protection of settlement.
It was naval facility, so they raised Naval Ensign.
Photo source (Kyoto University Library Archive)
SNLF Artilleries on the rooftop of building, 1937
During the battle of Shanghai, SNLF’s artilleries deployed cannons on the rooftop of headquarter building.
Photo source (wikimedia)
Photo taken in 2016
In that time, it was used as a commercial building.
Photo source (blog)
Others
Ruins of Shanghai City Government Office
Photo source (Kyoto University Library Archive)
Ruins of Wusong district
Photo source (Kyoto University Library Archive)
Ruins of Wusong Battery
Photo source (Kyoto University Library Archive)
Sightseeing bus for battlefield tours
Photo source (Kyoto University Library Archive)
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I find some information about Chinese Sniper Rifles!
According to this article, Chinese imported 120x sniper rifle from Germany. It was called Mauser M24 Heavy-Barrel Shotgun (actually it was rifle, not shotgun) This sniper rifle will be “FN Model 24”, a one of the variation of Gewehr 98. Additionally, Chinese also received Remington Model 30 with sniper scope from US during the Battle of Shanghai.
“抗战时期——狙击手的作用有多大？”
While I find lots of information, I made campaign progress table of both army! I hope someone interested to this sheet.
Campaign Progress Table
| Lv | Japan | China |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | [Rifle] 30th Year Type Infantry Rifle [Rifle] Type 38 Carbine [SniperRifle] Type 38 Modified Sniper Rifle (*1) [AFV] Japanese Carden-Loyd Tankette Mk VIb [Infantry1] 3rd Division, 6th Infantry Regiment [Sniper1] 101st Division, 101st Infantry Regiment [Tanker1] Shanghai SNLF, Tank Unit |
[Rifle] Hanyang Type 88 Rifle [Rifle] First-Year Type Rifle [SniperRifle] FN Model 24 w/ Scope (*2) [AFV] Chinese Carden-Loyd Tankette Mk VI [Infantry1] Shanghai Security Corps (*3) [Sniper1] 88th Division, 524th Regiment [Tanker1] NRA Tank Battalion, 3rd Company |
| 2 | [Grenade] Molotov Cocktail [SMG] Steyr-Solothurn S1-100 (7.63 mm) [Assaulter1] Shanghai SNLF, 1st Battalion |
[Grenade] Molotov Cocktail [SMG] Erma EMP [Assaulter1] 87th Division, 259th Regiment |
| P | [Infantry1] 1st Destroyer Squadron NLF [Rifle] 35th Year Type Naval Rifle |
[Infantry 1] Independent 34th Brigade [Rifle] Mannlicher M1895 |
| 3 | [Grenade] Type 91 Grenade [Rifle] Type 44 Carbine [Engineer1] 1st Independent Engineer Regiment |
[Grenade] Chinese Stielhandgranate [Rifle] Xuantong 3rd Year Type Rifle (*4) [Engineer1] Insert any engineer unit here |
| 4 | [Handgun] Type 94 Pistol [Fighter] Type 95 Fighter Model I (Ki-10-I Perry) [FighterP1] 3rd Air Brigade, 6th Independent Flight Company |
[Handgun] Hanyang/Mauser C96 [Fighter] Curtis Hawk II [FighterP1] ROCAF 5th Battalion |
| 5 | [SMG] SIG-Bergmann M1920 (7.63 mm) | [SMG] Chinese Bergmann MP18 (7.63 mm) |
| P | [AFV] Type 92 Heavy Armored Car 15th Division, Reconnaissance Unit |
[AFV] Vickers-Carden-Loyd light amphibious tank [Tanker] NRA Tank Battalion, 2nd Company |
| 6 | [Rifle] Type 38 Infantry Rifle [Radio1] Shanghai Dispatch Signal Unit |
[Rifle] Zhongzheng Rifle [Radio1] Insert any signal unit here |
| 7 | [Grenade] Explosion pack [Handgun] 14th Year Type Pistol [Attacker] Type 94 Carrier-Based Bomber (D1A1 Susie) [AttackerP1] 1st Carrier Division, HIJMS Kaga Air Squadron |
[Grenade] Explosion pack [Handgun] Lugar P08 [Attacker] Northrop Gamma 2EC [AttackerP1] ROCAF 2nd Battalion |
| 8 | [AFV] Vickers-Crossley Armored Car | [AFV] Sd Kfz 221 |
| 9 | [LMG] 11th Year Type Light Machine Gun [Gunner1] 1st Independent Machine Gun Battalion |
[LMG] FM 24/29 [Gunner1] Insert any machine gun unit here |
| 10 | [Sidecar] Type 97 Motorcycle with Sidecar (11th Year Type LMG) [Rider] 3rd Cavalry Regiment |
[Sidecar] Zündapp K800 with Sidecar [Rider] Insert any recon unit here |
| 11 | [SMG] Bergmann MP28 (7.63 mm) | [SMG] Bergmann MP28 (7.63 mm) |
| 12 | [AFV] Type 94 Light Armored Car | [AFV] Panzer I |
| P | [Fighter] Type 95 Fighter Model 2 (Ki-10-II Perry) [FighterP] 3rd Air Brigade, 4th Independent Flight Company |
[Fighter] Fiat CR.32 [FighterP] ROCAF 3rd Battalion |
| 13 | [LMG] Type 96 Light Machine Gun | [LMG] SIG KE7 |
| 14 | [Mortar] 10th Year Type Grenade Discharger [Mortarman] 11th Division, 12th Infantry Regiment |
[Mortar] Type 27 Grenade Discharger (*5) [Mortarman] 3rd Artillery Regiment |
| 15 | [Fighter] Type 96 Mark 1 Carrier-Based Fighter (A5M1 Claude) [FighterP2] IJN 2nd Combined Air Group |
[Fighter] Curtis Hawk III [FighterP2] ROCAF 4th Battalion |
| 16 | [SniperRifle] Type 97 Sniper Rifle | [SniperRifle] Remington Model 30 w/ Scope |
| 17 | [Rifle] Type 38 R w/ Type 91 Rifle Grenade Launcher (*6) [Trooper2] 13th Division, 58th Infantry Regiment |
[Rifle] Kar98k w/ Schiessbecher grenade launcher (*7) [Trooper2] 19th Division, 113th Regiment |
| P | [Rifle] Mauser Rifle Model II (*8) [Trooper] 3rd Division, 3rd Engineer Regiment |
[Rifle] Lebel Model 1886 rifle [Trooper] Insert any engineer unit here |
| 18 | [Flamethrower] Type 93 Flamethrower [Flametrooper] 8th Independent Engineer Regiment |
[Flamethrower] Flammenwerfer 35 (*9) [Flametrooper] Insert anything here |
| 19 | [Attacker] Type 98 Light Bomber (Ki-32 Mary) | [Attacker] Vultee V-11 |
| 20 | [LMG] Lewis/Type 92 Light Machine Gun [GunnerII] HIJMS Izumo NLF |
[LMG] ZB vz. 26 [GunnerII] Insert any machine gun unit here |
| 21 | [Rifle] Type 38 Infantry Rifle, Pre-War Production [Engineer2] Independent 12th Engineer Regiment |
[Rifle] 4th Year Type Rifle [Engineer2] Insert any engineer unit here |
| 22 | [AFV] Type 89 Medium Tank Mod Ko / Early [Tanker2] 5th Tank Regiment |
[AFV] Vickers 6-ton tank Mk E Type B [Tanker2] NRA Tank Battalion 1st Company |
| 23 | [Mortar] Type 89 Grenade Discharger | [LMG] Lahti-Saloranta M/26 |
| 24 | [Attacker] Type 96 Mark 1 Ground-Based Attacker (Mitsubishi G3M1 Nell) [AttackerP2] 1st Combined Air Group |
[Attacker] Martine 139W [AttackerP2] ROCAF 8th Battalion |
| 25 | [SMG] Experimental Model 1 SMG (*10) [Assaulter 2] China Garrison 2nd Regiment (*11) |
[SMG] Chinese Thompson SMG [Assaulter 2] 88th Division, 264th Regiment |
| 26 | [Semi-Auto Rifle] Experimental Automatic Rifle Ko (*12) [Radio2] 6th Division, Signal Unit |
[Semi-Auto Rifle] ZH-29 [Radio2] Insert any signal unit here |
| 27 | [AFV] Type 89 Medium Tank Ko / Late | Vickers 6-ton tank Mk E Type B w/Radio |
Notes
notes
NRA: National Revolutionary Army
IJN: Imperial Japanese Navy
IJA: Imperial Japanese Army
SNLF: Special Naval Landing Force
NLF: Naval Landing Force
HIJMS: His Imperial Japanese Majesty’s Ship
XX式: Type XX
XX年式: XX Year Type
XX号: Mark XX
XX型: Model XX
*1: In that time, this weapon was not adopted yet.
*2: Chinese imported 120x Mauser M24 and its sniper scope in 1935. Reference
*3: 上海市保安總團. Chinese security forces set up in accordance with the armistice agreement of January 28 incident.
*4: 宣統三年式步槍. Xuantong 3 is western era 1911.
*5: Copy of Japanese 10th Year Type Grenade Discharger. Production started since 1938.
*6: Probably rifle grenade launcher for Type 38 Infantry Rifle. Reference
*7: Placeholder.
*8: Japanese name of Mauser Kar98k. Importer 1938.
*9: Placeholder.
*10: 試製一型機関短銃 / Experimental Model 1 Machine-Carbine
*11: 支那駐屯歩兵第二連隊. They were garrison at Tianjin (Northern China) and they tested this SMG at battlefield. They did not participated Battle of Shanghai.
*12: Only few prototype was built and project was cancelled.
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^^^ Guys make this happen!
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