This doesn’t counter the issue OP brought up. When I (as attacker) have a rally already prepped for the next point and am able to rush to the next cap before defenders can even spawn and solo cap, how is that fair or fun?
The window for defenders to spawn on the point is pretty low, and if someone is already waiting at the grey zone to push the next point, what are the defenders gonna do? I do it every time on the Berlin Axis invasion map (not Moat but the one with the train) for point 3. I am able to finish capping point 2 & sprint over to the next point before defenders can get there. If they stop to make a rally, then there is no chance of them stopping me.
of course who hasn’t done that, to easily win a strategic point, but berlin, the time it takes to capture a point is ridiculously insignificant, how much is it? I think that about 15-20 seconds, on the other hand if you do that in battle for Moscow, at most you manage to complete up to half and that. That is why I am of the idea of giving a certain time to capture a strategic point such as 1 minute
That logic is messed up. You are attacking the second or third line of defense. The same place where defenders were being reinforced from mere seconds ago. It doesn’t get any more “properly set up” than that. Rushing it before defenders get there goes against all logic, but that’s totally fine because game logic here is broken as hell.
Also unless you die exactly during the final seconds of defense of the previous objective, you don’t get to spawn on the next objective. You either get to run to it together with the attackers, or you get to spawn way behind it and run a roughly equal distance. Which means it’s actually advantageous for the attackers to not kill defenders after taking the point. All game mode logic is a shameful mess here, it needs an overhaul.
That is how it works in pretty much every game
The attackers get a limited time to cap to the end or lose
The defenders have to stall them out for the time ( or in enlisted respawns) ro run out
The best way for attackers to win is to cap everything as fast as possible-> if possible before defenders can setup properly
Other games have this concept already figured out.
Yes you need to push as the attackers, but you shouldn’t be able to single-cap an enpty objective because the defenders are either still falling back the 500m from the frontline or running the 500m from their spawn.
Example: Breakthrough in BFV. Note how when the sector is taken (20:27), get to evacuate from the lost sector albeit under fire; however the attackers don’t get to instantly rush the next objective and capture it empty.
The attackers need to either eliminate all the defenders in this sector first, or the next one will open regardless after 60 seconds.
My experience is quite diffrent(from TF2)
There you can go straight to the next point and instantly start capping
If the defenders dont stop you that is their fault
Amd sucessfully backcapping is absolutely hilarious
Other games solved it long ago - timer + locked zone. Enemy won’t be able to get to the point until times goes out, because objective will stay in grey zone while timer is active.
Randomly auto-spawning 1-2 squads at the next objective like now, only those squads doesn’t have the choice to spawn elsewhere. Their main objective is defence of the opjective, so 2-3 rushing enemies can’t capture it so easily anymore. Problem solved
Randomly auto-spawning a squad of snipers or other squad that sucks in CQB is not a great solution.
Depending on the match, it’s not just 2-3 rushing enemies but full smg squads, with people communicating over discord. I had matches where it took me more time to build RP than enemy would cap objective. This is a really weird problem to have in 2021 when 5 other games already solved that long time ago.
Non-problem. Stop hanging around to kill attackers and fall back to the next defense point. Defenders are more than capable of that if they are paying any attention at all. If you’re speed-losing caps routinely then you / your team are bad at defending. Learn to read the situation and move in the right direction as necessary.
Good attackers deserve to be rewarded for being aggressive and bad defenders deserve to be punished for being passive.
It is typically a D-Day scenario when first objective is bunker nearest to the beach so majority of defenders would be there or around but allies like to flank and set up rally behind the wall on either side (I do it too when playing allies) so they basically have rally for the first objective in spot of default spawn for the second one. When they see that 1st bunker is about to fall they rush the gray zone and cap the second objective if there are a lot of defenders still alive near the first objective - they simply have not enough time to return. And it takes a lot of time to fall back from the beach as a defender given allies are already ahead.
Or the ruined town if you start with bunker and then defend church it is too close so attackers can easily rush there and defenders have no time to set up a defense.
Also I noticed that in Tunisia bikers like to rush cap a lot.
And to spawn directly on objective there is pretty narrow window that you need to get killed in nearly exact time after objective falls. Right after the objective falls you still spawn on old spawn points for previous objective. It takes a few seconds and then there are only a few seconds to chose new objective as a spawn, the time window is really short so even if you select it but your respawn cooldown is too long you get spawned into random default spawn if you miss the short time window even with objective spawn selected.
this problem is best seen in D-Day, where cap points are really close to each other.
i think this is how it usually goes :
both teams are fighting around the point, but the Allies still manage to capture it.
while the enemy has captured the point, most of the defenders are still alive, so now they have to fall back.
they cant really just run back, cause then they just get shot in the back . the dead people have 5 second cooldown + ~ 70 meters to run.
also they are running down the hill so - in the full view of enemy tanks, and infantry.
meanwhile a single US squad is waiting for their team to capture the point, and the moment they do they just rush the next point. most of the time only 1-2 members of the squad survive. yet they still reach the point and start capturing.
so here`s where we end up :
defenders stuck slowly retreating, or spawning ~70 meters away. then slowly advancing cause they are being suppressed.
1 guy singlehandedly capturing at least 50 % if not most of the point.
It’s a no win situation for defenders most of the time. In fact the entire game is stupidly set up entirely around attackers. There aren’t even any safeguards in case attackers decide to hang back and farm points. The game simply doesn’t end until attackers die enough times or take all the points.
As a defender if you try to retreat to the next point, you’ll get killed from behind by attackers and it will be too late to spawn on the next point. You’ll have to run to it from spawns behind it, except that now you’ll be further away from it than attackers. The only chance you get to do anything at all is by staying behind and delaying the attackers, except that it dooms you. The game dooms you either way.
The only way for defenders to be on the next point in time is to either 1) luck out and die in the final moments of defending the previous point, or 2) abandon it beforehand, essentially admitting defeat. That’s not smart, it’s dumb and cheesy.
So, dear developers, in conclusion here is what we need to make Invasion balanced, fair and interesting for both sides:
when attackers capture an objective, a 60-second timer should start where the next sector is still grey area for attackers but defenders can fall back;
a timer should be implemented (e.g. 30 minutes) for each sector, which resets each time attackerts capture the objective - the game ends either when attackers are out of tickets or out of time;
(optional) each defender who hasn’t retreated and has been killed within those 60 seconds adds several tickets to the attacking team - this would incentivize the defenders to fall back and not stay on the lost objective and snipe from a bush.
This is not rocket science or a revelation, this cinceot has been tested and proven in other games over the years (just copy BF Breakthrough mechanics in this case).
eeh, id rather there be the ability to maintain a front line that retreats, not one that teleports and dosent adjust or move until the next point is capped
60 seconds definitely seems way too long
maybe extend the time when people can respawn on the new point, and instead limit it by the ammount of spawns on the point(3-5 squads should be plenty)+ clearly indicate the new point spawn
