Please allow defenders a brief time to actually defend or fortify a position

Quite sure gorilla units doesnt have any magic talent of knowing the next cap point.
So it feels slighty biased that this gorilla is already capping the next point while you are oblivious of it.

Even the fast cap aside, its still relatively difficult to imagine the defenders with infinite tickets as victim here.

I must have missed advertisement

Well if the attacker does know the next cap and you dont, this kind of falls into above mentioned skill issue department.

Im sorry, were you asking to nerf defenders here ?

Thanks for the sarcasm, really added a lot to the discussion. I’ll address the only serious point you raised. Guerrilla squads can reliably predict upcoming capture points because there are typically only one or two viable locations. Two squads can coordinate to occupy both before the objective flips, meaning defenders physically cannot arrive in time.

You can claim defenders could mirror this by sending engineers ahead to the next capture points, but doing so strips manpower and support from the current point, weakening it and creating a snowball effect. In other words, the system rewards bypassing defenses entirely rather than actually breaking them. That’s the problem being highlighted.

K, so you have 2 players with 2 squads wandering in greyzone figuring the next cap point.
That means theres 8 attackers left to deal with cap point against 10 defenders.

Now, make me understand the math behind this, how exactly is the defenders here in disadvantage ?
How are you even losing the cap when you have more people holding it than attackers attempting to take it ?

The guerilla does not spawn there though, they need to get there first if I am not mistaken. So you have the option to bar their path via covering more ground instead of relying on pure CP swarming tactic.

First of all. The quote is like this. Next time you attempt to phrase things to support your argument, when clearly the latter does not suit your narrative, I’m not going to be as nice.

Here is my answer to it. At least do not look over it, next time. And don’t quote whatever suits your narrative and put in entire words.

Except defence is my favourite side during these matches and it is often one-sided purely by the fact I am not under any limitation as to what I spawn, how much I spawn. And I can stay in my spot and shoot at the upcoming enemies who have to abandon their cover to move up, while I merely switch from house to house and continue harassing.

And no, I do not deny I wish defence to be penalized, purely on the fact that all of these are preventable by the defender in the first place.
1st - distance - first spawn on CP can go out and build a rally immediately. Except that’s not what happens is it?
2nd Disorganization - really? Red army “feels” much? You need a min to know where you are on map or something? Spawn in, build rally and move into a position on flank or up front.
3rd Retake - Of course there is no retaking when you’d literally make all the enemy casualties pointless in return
4th Tempo and initiative - often can be slowed down by whatever remains in the areas after cap falls, such is the responsibility of those that remain and are meant to do fight delaying battles instead of rushing to retreat.

No, I am not protecting it, I am asking for something in return for it, which you seem to fail to grasp, no wonder. You ask for time to regroup and prepare positions, thus denying continued momentum and initiative from the attackers, yet there is no idea of compensation for such a nerf. So the only one-sided and biased in here is you.

If you want a change, present a change that achieves balance between benefits and negatives. Not just a pure benefit for one, while the other is kicked in the nuts.

You’re framing it as static headcount math, but the problem isn’t raw numbers on the current point, it’s timing, positioning, and momentum.

Guerrilla squads don’t have to “wander” the entire match. They only peel off near the end of a cap, scout the one or two predictable locations, and get into position. They’re not removed from the fight for long, and once they flip the next point instantly, defenders are forced to abandon winning fights and sprint across the map into bad positions.

So the situation becomes:

• defenders still rotating and out of cover

• attackers already on the point and fortified

• defenders trickling in piecemeal rather than set up

The attackers don’t need equal numbers to win that exchange, they’re trading tempo for position which is far more valuable than your “8 vs 10” headcount snapshot.

Your math ignores:

• travel time

• setup time for defenses

• spawning distance differences

• attackers being allowed to skip the defensive line entirely

Defenders lose because the system lets attackers bypass the defenses instead of breaking them. That flips the advertised mode on its head.

If entrenched defense is supposed to be the identity of the mode, mechanics that reward leapfrogging and pre-capping undermine it entirely and pretending it’s just a “bad defenders” problem doesn’t address the structural issue.

Serious question. Do guerrillas just spawn in rear lines from the get-go or is he BSing me?
As a person who often handles flank coverage I always run into them head-on, so I wonder where this backline spawning comes from.

Look man I honestly don’t care what you gotta say anymore or how nice you wanna be now you want something in return fine I would definitely entertain the idea of giving a couple more respawns attackers (honestly it’s a fun idea) when they capture an objective. That seems fine to me however your previous suggestions for trade-offs ultimately gutted everything about balance and just made it worse for defenders overall.

Now you’re putting words in my mouth in order to attempt to invalidate my argument, I never said anything about guerillas spawning back there. It is widely known they have to make their way over there which they can easily do by just giving the main objective of wide birth while on their way to the potential next objective.

Great so it’s the map coverage problem of the defenders like I said. Good that we got that settled. And no, those routes often do not require you to be out of line of sight for the main approach areas. You can cover those too and quite effectively since you flank them.

Except I understand, being outside the CP is quite a difficult thing to grasp, when you just want to camp.

Okay, so 8 attackers know positioning, timing & momentum and your team stands still on CP ?

K, so 8 attackers first deals with 10 defenders, then 2 attackers deals with 10 defenders as gorillas.
???

You could begin to rotate earlier, most likely the 2 possible CP’s that you dont know but enemies does are at the same direction anyway.

So not only gorillas are there but also engineers ?

May I ask what exactly stops defenders doing this ? Defenders can also use the gorillas and take out attackers radios, apcs and what else to return attackers spawns to default.

No, and tbh im not sure can they even spawn to radios or is it always default spawn for gorillas.

No, what you just did there is a classic begging-the-question fallacy. You assumed the very thing you were trying to “prove”, that defenders losing is simply a map coverage problem, instead of addressing the structural issue.

The real problem isn’t that defenders are lazy or bad at covering zones; it’s that the game mechanics allow guerrilla squads to pre-cap objectives before defenders can physically arrive, bypassing entrenched defenses entirely. Saying “it’s a coverage problem” just assumes defenders are at fault without explaining why the game should even allow such an exploit in the first place.

This isn’t a skill issue, it’s a design flaw that creates situations where defenders are mechanically set up to fail.

Except it is the fault of defenders for letting them in there in the first place.

They are a squad of 5, for fuck’s sake you want to them to frontal rush the CP, while being weaker than a rifleman squad, even with the SMGs?
Like they’re meant to work like this, if you allow them.
And like I could do the same with a regular squad. You can often guess the direction of upcoming CPs.
Just wait at the edge of grey zone while my team caps and then rush ahead. Would be twice as effective and probably could even set-up a rally. Or even get in a quick APC spawn-ins.

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Well first thing that comes in my mind would be because defending in this game is extremely easy compared to attacking.

It almost feels like you are expecting the attackers to run in straight line to CP and once theres someone with slight understanding of the game and flanked, the game is now broken ?

I’ll be nice enough to show some of the better spots I use for covering and denying movement from attackers, since guerrillas slipping past seem to be a great issue of yours. But they aren’t easy to hold, require quite the reaction time and awareness to hold effectively.

I’ll do so on some low BR maps, since they’re quite easy to navigate. Gib a sec.
Screenshot 2025-12-30 225559
Not my greatest work, but it’ll have to do.
Red dots are CPs.
Yellow dots are positions and their respective firing sectors.

Might see a pattern that I am not on the CP, yet can cover both it and flanking areas. Also great for drawing attention when you’re too effective since you can be quite a hinderance to the main push if you get like an HMG or you’re too effective at shooting. And all of them often have a view of the main avenues of Armor/APCs approach so you can mark/take care of them, if the chance presents itself.

First, let’s clear up a major misrepresentation in your responses: when I talk about fortifying, I’m not saying guerrilla squads magically have engineers who can build structures. Fortifying doesn’t necessarily mean building sandbags or emplacements it can simply mean taking cover behind map structures, using terrain effectively, or otherwise preparing a defensive position. Only engineers can build, so when I refer to engineers fortifying, that’s literal building. When I talk about guerrilla squads “fortifying,” I mean using existing cover, not constructing new defenses.

Now, point by point:

“Okay, so 8 attackers know positioning, timing & momentum and your team stands still on CP?”

Defenders don’t “stand still” — they rotate, react, and try to hold the point. The problem is that the game mechanics allow guerrilla squads to appear at the next CP before defenders can arrive, forcing defenders to split attention and move under unfavorable conditions. This isn’t about idle defenders; it’s about mechanical limitations of map traversal and spawn timing, which no amount of “standing still” counters.

“K, so 8 attackers first deals with 10 defenders, then 2 attackers deals with 10 defenders as gorillas. ???”

This assumes the two guerrilla attackers are irrelevant or outside the fight. In reality, they pre-cap the next objective while the defenders are still engaged. The defenders can’t immediately react because they are physically committed to the current point or en route to the next, so the two attackers can effectively skipping the next defensive engagement entirely, which breaks the intended flow of the mode.

“You could begin to rotate earlier, most likely the 2 possible CP’s that you don’t know but enemies does are at the same direction anyway.”

That’s exactly the problem. Defenders cannot know with certainty which CP will unlock, so they are forced to either:

  1. Leave the current fight understrength, or

  2. Risk running into Guerillas in open ground.

Guerrilla squads only need to move seconds before the previous CP flips, which is enough time to pre-position because the next point is highly predictable. This is a tempo and timing exploit, not a skill gap.

“May I ask what exactly stops defenders doing this? Defenders can also use the gorillas…”

Nothing stops defenders from trying, but there are several structural limitations:

Guerrilla squads only need minimal movement to pre-cap because the next CP is predictable; defenders have to leave their current engagement, which reduces manpower and support at the first point.

Only engineers can truly fortify by building, so defenders can’t magically match attack prep everywhere. Other classes can take cover, but they cannot create permanent obstacles, which means the attackers still have an easier path.

The game’s spawn mechanics and travel distances favor attackers pre-positioning more than defenders.

Your argument assumes defenders can do the exact same thing simultaneously without compromising their current positions, that’s just not true and it ignores the design flaw I’m highlighting. Now I’m all for giving attackers more spawns to balance out my suggestions if it’s needed. Tbh this conversation should be settled in a testing ground using the original idea then using slight tweaks from feedback. That would truly be a more reasonable way to pursue a consensus

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Thanks for the diagram, I’ve noticed we use very similar positions with slight differences. I absolutely love using the hmg myself.

Then what is the issue here? I mean if you do this then you should be often running into guerrillas head on. Sure your team is often blind to such positioning, but like, you’re there. You can hold it.

Just these flank positions had me going up against 3 squads persistently. 2 of which were guerrilla users.
image

I usually do my best at it but people will always slip by at some point. One player can’t stop a snowball, I’ve learned that the hard way. Usually what happens is when I get set up they learn what side of the map I’m on and completely go around it instantly the moment they realize there’s an hmg there.

Uh, I understand, but like some games aren’t meant to be won. Some teams are just bad to the point you can’t carry it. You just have to hope for better team next time.


This was a snowball, even if we managed to do 17 min, though I’d say it was mostly due to map being larger than usual. Not even good positioning, or aiming will get you through such games. Most you can do is be a thorn the enemy has to throw people at to not hinder them as much.

Though I don’t think your suggestion would really help out much. People don’t build rallies, let alone entrenchments. You’d base the whole defence on the effort of a few willing, while rest jumps around like monkeys.
All you’d do is make sure the attackers use every META tactic and abuse it against defenders, making it even less fun.

Which hardly should be problem if the setup is 2 gorillas trying to find next cp while 10 defenders are left to deal with 8 attackers.
If anything this leaves such advantage for defenders that they are free to push the attackers far as possible from cp and perhaps destroy the radios making the attackers life even more miserable.

And this gorilla unit defending next cp assumes that you lost the first cap with 10 vs 8 ?

Well if your argument is that theres 2 gorilla units figuring the next CP, you could just go there with
one (1) engineer squad, and do your bob the builder thing on another expected CP and mine the other.
And while at it build a radio between those 2 points where you expect the next cp to be.

Nothing really forces the defenders to stay engaged, you can just zergrush due to lack of tickets → die → spawn closer.

How is 9 vs 8 understreght while you are defender ?

Okay, so now we are afraid of dying in the game or what ?

From attackers default spawn to 2nd CP un-noticed doesnt exactly seem like minimal movement

Or stay in engagement because you have no tickets and kill the attackers at far as possible from cp.
If the gorilla unit is capping solo the next cap your doing something quite terribly wrong.

The scenario you are drawing here is that 2 gorillas went from attackers default spawn to expected 2nd cap point and hide there.
This literally means the fight is 10v8, theres no sugarcoating if you lose fight like that.

But im pretty sure our maths dont meet so what ever.

Anyway, I dont mind a small timer for CP and while at it grant possibility of 3? squads to spawn near cp regardless is it compromised or not.

And what I mean with small is indeed small, no several minute timers that allows the defenders to do theyr bob the building thing and push to edge of greyzone.

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