Machine guns should not be used as submachine guns

you didn’t specify - so an explanation was asked for and an answer supplied - thank you :slight_smile:

FYI - the British Parliament was told the Madsen could be fired from shoulder or knee without any support - see Hansard -

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1918/jun/06/the-madsen-gun

They just want to nerf MGs to the ground so in the future in Normandie they can thrash germans with Bar and 100-drum thompson, in Moscow and Berlin with their PPD. Okay! Then we leave the game.

Thx for this good evidence.

Yup.

There are TONS of news real footage of German soldiers shooting MGs from the hip, aiming and putting them on another soldier’s shoulder.

I don’t think the issue is putting it on someone’s shoulder - it is firing from the shoulder with no support - like a rifle.

That can be done - there’s plenty of modern videos demonstrating it - but you’d certainly not have good control and hence degraded accuracy, and that isn’t well represented in Enlisted.

Just make length and weight a factor in CQC and job done.

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I do have to agree that MGs need some kind of nerf as while it was definitely possible to fire them from the hip or shoulder, it was definitely not as common as it currently is ingame. Even the walking fire LMGs are pretty heavy and are not used in that role all the time.

I personally support @VoyoMayPL’s suggestion of introducing barrel length as a limiting factor, as well as improving how weight affects a soldier.

Other options:
One of these heavier LMGs like MG42 is not a weapon you would enjoy firing from the hip/shoulder for long periods of time, so perhaps stamina should be drained, or at least prevented from being regenerated.

Alternatively, preventing ADS and reducing hipfire accuracy for these heavier LMGs is also an option.

However, I would prefer to see barrel length limitations before either of those options as it would apply universally to all weapons, and would also buff the lower damage, shorter length carbines like the G33 and 1907 Mosin, on top of feeling more realistic, less “forced”, and probably more fun as well.

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Indeed - although I think that “just do it” is possibly treating it a bit lightly - if the game engine isn’t set up to handle it then it’s a big job.

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Game engine can 100% handle something like more weapon sway, longer time to raise it to aim, slower turning when carrying MG etc. Considering weight of particular LMGs could also work as a balancing factor - some players could prefer taking to battle less bulky machineguns to be more mobile.
But collision effects for the bigger weapons would be indeed more complicated.

From observation I can tell that weapons have kind of “physical model” that is used to determine if you can mount a weapon. That’s why bipods are so wonky.
I may be wrong but that’s how it seems to be.
If so, then some part of the job is done.
(Yes, I’m probably thinking that it’s easier than it really is. But I’m not a game programer and I have to work with what I have.)

Based on my experience of the Madsen, trying to ADS with it while walking or crouch walking in game is pretty futile, the recoil is all over the place, and I’ve certainly felt it worse than PPD for hipfire shenanigans as well.

I started getting far more kills with the weapon as soon as I started using it mounted (on windows or on the ground) rather than trying to figure out how to hipfire or ADS, so it feels like nerfing the ability to hipfire or ADS wouldn’t matter to me.

But sure, such nerfs can come when the mounting system isn’t quite as frustrating to find the specific pixel you CAN mount a thing on and where you get a decent line of fire as well.


Madsen is 30/30 recoil, 25 ammo mag, 410-450 shots per minute and 12 damage at 10 meters (I believe soldiers have 12 health, as medkits heal for 3.0).

PPD is 15/9 recoil, 71 ammo mag, 730-800 shots per minute, 5.5 damage at 10.

In my experience while you can use the Madsen as a hipfire building storming weapon, I’ve had better success with the drum PPD so far - the rate of fire and much lower recoil making sure I actually hit stuff.

Soldiers have 10 health base.

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I have noticed this physical stuff as well, on windows and while trying to shoot out of trenches sometimes you need to take a step back to not have the weapon collide with things…

Same as you can’t lean to the side as much if your head would collide with a wall :smile:

Though at 10 damage they will go down, they will not die. 15 damage is required for instakill. Neck shots have a 2x modifier, headshots have a 1.8x modifier, upper torso has a 1x modifier.

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You can easily mowedown a squad with an smg just by hip firing at close to medium distance, mg can’t do that, you have to kneel and ads to control recoil. In cqb it doesn’t matter if you use smg or mg.

Anyway, running with LMG I have seen plenty of guys running with Short barreled PKM in a forest.

For people using this picture as a ww2 original:

That was during a re-enactment in Texas. And that’s not live ammunition.

I too think that while some LMG could be fired without being deployed, they aren’t suitable to rush a building like a SMG. The recoil ingame is pretty low. It doesn’t need to be stupid high like in some games (you shoot once and the gun straight aim into the sky). But it also doesn’t need to be that low (unless the goal is to please the arcade gamers).
Even in the videos posted above, just look the stance those people have and how they really need to control the recoil. Imagine doing that while running.

On other hand, to balance a higher recoil, it should be much easier to rest the weapon on a window/sandbags/… Currently you have to find the right angle, a step forward, a bit to the left, umm no, back to the right…

This should also apply to the anti-tank rifle. Those weapons have a HUGE recoil, are really heavy and long, and seeing you’re able to use it against tanks (or even soldiers) like a normal rifle is just stupid

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Not all M16s are automatic…

Yes all M16s are or are select fire meaning burst. All AR15 platforms are not