Kill / Death Ratio and the Birth of Aces

[Elendilll]

@Srg_Steiner

Well im not that skilled but i do have my moments ^^ Sometimes not lol. Ive managed to shoot down 2 ILs once with an Stuka which was one of my greatest joy in game. Cant stand those bullies xD The pilots was not that good though so cant say its one of my biggest pride but still satisfying JUSTICE!

Not as fun as shooting planes with tanks! Talking about self satisfaction!

Great games always, Steiner!

[EVA_对你来说是啥]

I’m surprised people are still responding to this obvious bait. Like OP won’t even post their stats, and the few screenshots Shiivex dug up shows them being a mediocre player.

[Srg_Steiner]

lol…that must been an carnage to behold Im impressed Tank hunting is so much fun for sure

[Srg_Steiner]

Yeah must be rewarding to ^^ Im still trying to shoot down an plane with GRB.39 but its just close every time. Not sure if its enough though but will surely leave an large hole in their wing ^^

[Elendilll]

@Srg_Steiner

lol…that must been an carnage to behold Im impressed Tank hunting is so much fun for sure

Lol it was… Actually the pilot wasnt that effective. I mean I could see his stats in the team statistics and he just kept trying to bomb but was either too new or too inexperienced, so he just make a lot of craters around me. The team was already winning however, so I decided to wait for him. Lol then he appeared, same route, same strafe, only this time I was waiting… Steiner, lol you should have seen the animation for the plane being hit at point blank range with HE round!!! He exploded into fireball and his debris made spectacular fireworks!!!

[Elendilll]

@Srg_Steiner

Yeah must be rewarding to ^^ Im still trying to shoot down an plane with GRB.39 but its just close every time. Not sure if its enough though but will surely leave an large hole in their wing ^^

I’ve shot them down regularly with that premium machine gun squad. Those guys are awesome. Especially biplanes. In fact, experimented with that squad vs planes and it had some fantastic results with everything but the flying tank the Soviets have.

I load them out with extra ammo and they seem to do incredibly well in a location with enough visibility to see the enemy plane strafing routes. So well that enemy planes always divert to deal with the threat.

[Srg_Steiner]

lol that wasnt my reply to you but its ok since im impressed asw that you managed to hit an plane with those things with their turret speed and all ^^ especially if it was an pnz4 with its trajectory…But yeah must been an blast for sure xD The explosions can be pretty intense even in dogfights so can imagine what an HE round would do to it

Tank mgs incl infantry with mg are also pretty dangerous to planes, sometimes you just get an salvo out from no where and if it hit it hits pretty good and can even be devastating

[Elendilll]

@Srg_Steiner

Tank mgs incl infantry with mg are also pretty dangerous to planes, sometimes you just get an salvo out from no where and if it hit it hits pretty good and can even be devastating

Well using tank does seem like a luxury you can seldom afford - poor turret rotation speed, not to mention vertical limits - make it a fool’s task, I guess. And maybe even MG squad use is better suited elsewhere, but there are moments when occasional Russian ace does get annoying good And if he is superb in air, and manages to get my plane down, I use the last resort - my MG squad. The benefit is you know exactly where to wait for him, and you will have an element of surprise.

[Soul_Tribunal]

@Elendilll

Yet amazingly, you choose to conflate the two together. I.E. what you basically said was “you can be a good player with good K/D but since you can also be a bad player with good K/D, I am going to assume you are the latter”.

Not at all. I used the phrasing ‘at times’ if you bothered to read, meaning that it, as a number, can be altered using methods, as described. So for me the KDR Number means you can be both when it stands alone and is the ‘best stat to show you are a good player’ as you say.

@Elendilll

A very dumb post - I haven’t shared any opinions on Normandy. In fact the only thing I said was I don’t know it cause I don’t play it. In fact the entire premise of your question was - how do you get a Jumbo in grayzone in Normandy without dying as infantry? It was so confusing. I don’t play Normandy, and I didn’t even know what Jumbo was referring to. Told you just as much. Was confused why you would have to be infantry to destroy it? Don’t you have those teammates around you to blow it up with a plane or AT gun? Anyways, that’s all I said and you come back with “your opinion is VOID and NULL”??? Lmao, ok. I didn’t know my statement that I don’t play Normandy and two questions were “an opinion”.

Actually, that was in reference to when I am citing examples of things, and you are countering my argument having, as you stated, never been put in that tactical situation.

@Elendilll

That’s actually complete nonsense. If you are in a tank and actively helping your squad, you don’t need to die because some artificial “commander” decided its not longer time to “TANK” anymore. What a bunch of nonsense?!? Why would you abandon your tank that supresses enemy team, assisting in objective and covers your team as it advances??? This is nonsense.

I dont’ know what you watched in your 1700 games and I don’t even know what “farming” is, but you apparently faced way too many random teams where people weren’t doing much against you, and I am glad you won all those games. If this is all you got out of those games, then congratulations! I am very happy that you are playing on good teams!!! I am not against that.

This statement right here proves that you have NO idea what I am taking about, because you’ve never been in Normandy to see it.
Yet you counter it with nonsense. You counter it with arguments having never experienced it. Hence my null and void comment.
There are no maps in the other 3 campaigns that can come close to the battle that is Normandy.
And you having never been there counter so many things I talk about that associate with that map.

@Elendilll

You implied that I said K/D was “sole measuring stick” - that was a blatant lie.
You also implied that people with high K/D are automatically useless because they are obviously farming kills - that was also blatant lie.
You also just stated that I flaunted my stats - that is another blatant lie because I never said anything about my stats or posted them.

I said , if you had bothered to read, that it was an implication due to the lack of any other metrics in your original post stating what makes a good player. I cited examples and referenced many things as a result.
Showing that a ‘good’ player is a culmination of multiple skill sets.
And that you do not need your metric to be that.
Nowhere in your OP did you state that Engineering Score is what is a good metric, Kills on the ‘Point’ are what makes you a good player. You said, KDR is the best indicator of that. So no, not a lie.
As well, where the hell did I say you flaunt your stats? I’m confused by that.

I never said people with a High KD are useless. I said that you can artificially change it so it cannot be used IMO as something that defines a player.

@Elendilll

I am not going to bother to explain 5th grade level math to someone who doesn’t understand random probabilities for unranked, randomized games. If math is not your forte, I certainly do not wish to rekindle long lost passion for education. Anyone with high school level math knows this - random game of ten people vs ten people, where skill is even, will result in equal number of wins/losses over a period of 1000s of games. It’s a mathematical certainty. When balance is tipped - faction too strong, team is stacked or better equipped - then so does a result. But as long as we are talking about random games, it’s inevitable that the balance remains the same, around 50%. You win more? Congrats, you admitted to being on better teams, you admitted to having more than 1700 games so probably have top tier equipment. Congrats on your victories. That doesn’t change the fact that your team wins more not because you are some kind of monster of team games, but simply because the teams against you, are either less stacked, uncoordinated and full of random players of lesser skill level. Gloating over victories over teams whose composition was random, whose skill level might have been 1700 times lower than yours is just silly. Hence why I never once criticize enemy teams - neither in defeats nor in victories. I don’t know what they had to work with. Claiming that our victories are solely based on how WE play is silly. It gives no credit or accounts for any enemy shortcomings or weaknesses there from start.

So now you, whom complained about insults etc, and I’ve tried to be fair and concise in what I have said is going to be sly with your comments and throw little insults like that?
No thanks.

@Elendilll

Again this is nonsense. This is crazy coming from someone who appears to be able to think clearly - how can high K/D MIGHT make a good player POTENTIALLY, but DECISIVELY WITHOUT DOUBT makes him a bad teammate? How did you come to that definitive conclusion? What about his lethality, so unequivocally and decisevely made him right away a BAD TEAMMATE? You didn’t even use "might or potentially’ - just flat out “bad teammate”

Because you have missed my points, there is no reason trying to explain again what I was saying.
You are picking and choosing what you want to understand to solidify your narrative. Nothing more.

@Elendilll

Top tier teams don’t attack in regular routes. They flank and they move off grid to avoid your mortars and your artillery fire because they assume the team against them will target those exact routes. And that precisely how they stumble into a rally point full of guys who all of the sudden do not feel safe, and since they have no experience killing enemies and staying alive, they will be dead and those rally points overwhelmed in seconds.

I wasn’t talking top tier teams, I was talking about new players and protecting them.
I don’t take organic spawns at all. Unless I have no choice. But teaching them how to do it is one of the most important fundementals IMO.

@Elendilll

Show me a stat where you won a game with your buddies where an enemy team LOST but had 8-10 players with badges. I’ve posted at least two. Have one? Post it. Cause I would like to see your results vs a team like that! I’ll w

No buddies. I was not in a team, this was me, random Doing my thing.
I don’t care how many times I died. I had mostly bots for a team, but I just threw more ‘warm’ bodies on the point and made there life hell with every sacrifice.

Anywho, I’m out.

small edit. I don’t min max my Squads. I don’t use top tier gear even though I have access to it, I still run 60% BA’s , 30 SA’s, and 10% Autos, just because I saw you made mention I have maxed out squads, gear etc, which is very much a false assumption

[Soul_Tribunal]

Yeah Gastanofrizzi,

I know you get it. You and I and so many others lived through that hell.
But now I have some counters to them, and I make sure that when I tank I tank so I can be killed.

Thanks for the post.

[Elendilll]

@Soul_Tribunal

I said , if you had bothered to read, that it was an implication due to the lack of any other metrics in your original post stating what makes a good player. I cited examples and referenced many things as a result.
Showing that a ‘good’ player is a culmination of multiple skill sets.
And that you do not need your metric to be that.
Nowhere in your OP did you state that Engineering Score is what is a good metric, Kills on the ‘Point’ are what makes you a good player. You said, KDR is the best indicator of that. So no, not a lie

That’s absolutely either a lie or lack of reading. Whichever you choose, I leave it up to you. I specifically said that after you achieve K/D 1:1 you move to specialize. Specialization increase your K/D and they are formed by other metrics. I didn’t go into specifics but I clearly wrote a lot about specializations and diverting into other areas, but only after you’ve mastered the most basic and simplest of them - all kill more than die.

Bottom line is very simply. You are a team player and your philosophy is TEAMMATE first and then learn everything else later. My philosophy is entirely different and in fact similar to what people are actually taught in real life - you learn to kill and stay alive and only then become assigned to teams, units and etc. It’s not so hard to understand, really. Why does our difference in opinions somehow make you think that you are the only one sitting on a high horse??? I don’t get it. Is it because you think you are right and that means naturally I am wrong?

@Soul_Tribunal

his statement right here proves that you have NO idea what I am taking about, because you’ve never been in Normandy to see it.

I never made any statements or conversations adhere to whatever is going in Normandy or Berlin or Tunisia. I never made any campaign specific posts. If you decided to tie all your experiences to Normandy, and somehow they are so drastically different from the rest of the game, then it’s your decision and I do not understand why you decided to penalize me for it?

After all, you didn’t specify what you were talking about at all - you just said YOUR OPINION IS NOID AND NULL. Doesn’t sound very nice inspiring or explanatory. Feel free to re read your own post.

@Soul_Tribunal

So now you, whom complained about insults etc, and I’ve tried to be fair and concise in what I have said is going to be sly with your comments and throw little insults like that?

At the very least I am happy you didn’t again assail the math portion of my post. Perhaps you finally realized mathematical doctrines in regards to randomization.

@Soul_Tribunal

Because you have missed my points, there is no reason trying to explain again what I was saying.
You are picking and choosing what you want to understand to solidify your narrative. Nothing more.

That’s a lie. I quoted you directly and that was your statement. I specifically pointed out that your statement was wrong because it didn’t explain how did you arrive at “GOOD K/D being a bad team player”. You didn’t explain that at all and made it look like some sort of fact. I pointed out all the side words you used to describe how K/D is good, only to use absolutely no other words to unequivocally state that “good K/D is a bad teammate”. And I pointed out that factor. I asked you how you got to that conclusion? So I ask again, how is a good K/D player who assists his team with whatever specialization he has, actively participates is a BAD TEAMMPLAYER? And if he is not, then what is the puprose of all that you wrote???

@Soul_Tribunal

I wasn’t talking top tier teams, I was talking about new players and protecting them.

You do not protect new players like that. They don’t need your protections. They need to learn how to play and not worry about game outcomes! They need to move around, learn maps, stay alive and learn basics of survival. That’s why random games are not supposed to be WIN AT ALL COSTS.

[Serpiko82]

Average post in this thread be like:

https://i.giphy.com/media/B7o99rIuystY4/giphy.webp

[gastanofrizzi]

Tolkien go away!

[Soul_Tribunal]

Heh, yeah I’m out.
I forgot sometimes that no matter how hard you try and work through a problem, or opinion, you will have your words twisted and shaped to the benefit of the one going against you.

Drinks are on me tonight, I played the game long enough today.

[Elendilll]

@Soul_Tribunal

I forgot sometimes that no matter how hard you try and work through a problem, or opinion, you will have your words twisted and shaped to the benefit of the one going against you.

Totally agree and totally true. I share your feelings on the subject.

That said, I have to admit that among things that shocked me the most wasn’t even the fact that apparently most people got worked up about the K/D ratio… it’s the fact that 50% win rate struck some as low and unbelievable despite the fact that it was a basic math.

Cheers! Enjoy your much needed rest. See you in Moscow!

[Karl_Magne]

Oh wow, this thread has alot of text that i am to lazy to read

I just need to know, Has the K/D guy posted his stats yet?

[gastanofrizzi]

No!

[Karl_Magne]

damn…

guess i will have to see again at 300 replies

[gastanofrizzi]

[Elendilll]

@Karl_Mengele

I just need to know, Has the K/D guy posted his stats yet?

Nope. But the information has been posted on my YouTube channel at least three times. Cheers, kid!