Kill / Death Ratio and the Birth of Aces

[Elendilll]

@Soul_Tribunal

Directly saying it? No. But the implications were very clear. You do not have to call someone a ‘name’ to imply they are that ‘name’. You have given titles and glorification to higher levels of ‘kdr’. You may not have said it outright, but your message is clear as day to anyone who reads it. This is the stat that matters most

Again, you implied that in my original post I stated that it was “the sole measuring stick”. I told you it wasn’t, and you clearly confirm that it wasn’t. As to being the most important - yes I still say the same thing. Your K/D ratio is the most important thing you must work on as a new player. As you progress in this you become an ACE, once you begin to be a useful member of the team with your specialization.

@Soul_Tribunal

I have watched players sport 1 to 0 deaths, and get ROLLED because they refuse to ‘assault’ or get out of there Grey Zone Tank, or Plane.

Have you watched Srg_Steiner play? You should watch him. He isn’t doing all these extremes of grayzone camping or one snipe and disappear sniper routine. He is always in the thickest of fighting, helping teammates, encouraging teamates and assisting. And he does so with incredible ability to stay alive and inflict insane losses. You seem to conflate a good K/D with some form of cheating or camping because according to you, it’s simply impossible to stay kill more enemies and die less if you are active member of your team. This is nonsense as you can be both.

@Soul_Tribunal

That is NOT a team player. That is a handicap to whatever side they are on

It’s already been discredited. Implying that a tank positioning itself a safe distance from infantry and inflicting significant damage to infantry is somehow “camping” or
“grayzoning” and not helping YOUR team is your own assumptions.

@Soul_Tribunal

Learning to Kill more than Die will come organically when they learn how to be a team player.

You can’t learn that because if he plays in a game with a player like you who constantly wants him to build a ammo box, or run into an objective which is defended by a good squad and he doesn’t know how to shoot, how to lop a grenade or how to even order his squad about, he will be just that “warm body”, adhering to your sense of “team” and that’s it. He will die senselessly without even knowing who killed him and his squad. Hence why I disagree with your comment. Players need to learn to shoot and kill and effectively use their squads before they can do anything else. And if their first games are shared by gamers who constantly yell “GET TO THE OBJECTIVE YOU MORONS!!!” then it’s all ruined. Random players in this game and new players, aren’t concerned with your ideas of “TEAM” and “WINNING” because they haven’t even tried combat enough to know how this game works. Random games are made to be used as experiment with basics - shoot, kill, cover, relocate, lob a grenade, avoid a tank. Players can’t learn that if there is a self serving bully screaming GO TO THE LOCATION NOW>>> MARK COORDINATES NOW!!! BUILD SOMETHING YOU IDIOTS!!!".

@Soul_Tribunal

Who Helped win the game more in that instance?

Winning of the game in random matches is random! That’s why the rate of people playing in random game will always be 50%. It’s irrelevant stat because while learning the game you don’t need to focus on winning it. You need to learn to play first before you worry about winning. You have to evolve as an individual player before you can be a teammate.

@Soul_Tribunal

Show me how to kill 2 Grey Zone Jumbo’s on Normandy, as Infantry without losing a single troop. The way a lot of tankers play, you have to make Great Sacrifices to kill them. The game and map design helps promote this type of camping and play.
You have to sacrifice to do so.

I told countless times - I don’t play Normandy. I don’t know. But is it impossible to use a teammate with a plane to bomb those tanks? What’s the problem? Can no AT gun reach them?

@Soul_Tribunal

Casualties have to happen, I will not dispute that. But you can win games without causing many.
I had on the weekend a 9min match. I killed 32 people and was top kid. Why only 9min? Because my team had, insanely, 5 Rally points, and kept our momentum. KDR was nothing in that match. We out Engineered their team

This only happens if one sided battles where one team is way more experienced than others. If balance is the same - top team vs top team, random vs random - it won’t work. Your K/D will have to come into play because if someone is better and more efficient than you at killing squads, your rally points won’t matter. Nor will anything else you do.

@Soul_Tribunal

All sides being equal was a terminology to make a point, I am not saying it happens often, though lately it has been more and more.
Of my 1700+ matches now, I have played probably 1400, solo, random, doing whatever in all 4 campaigns.

It’s kind of ironic that you gave yourself 1400 games to play solo, experiment and do all that, just to get to the point where now you are doing things you think matter while you play “WITH FRIENDS”, yet you feel that simple instructions for newer player to learn to kill more and die less in their few couple of hundred games is somehow bad. There is a reason you got to where you are supposedly. And that high K/D rate you quoted was useful of course to make you develop as player.

@Soul_Tribunal

I don’t want efficient killers.
I want smart ones.

But you want killers no? What good is all your rally points, your macine gun nests and your AT gun installations if players can’t stay alive to use them???

@Soul_Tribunal

Tactics, 101.

Lol, my friend, again, I am not interested in what “tactics” are vs a random team that doesn’t know what you are doing and frankly doesn’t even know what you are doing. My point is, when everything evens out, skill and lethanlity will matter the most.

I play enough games now to see guys, especially on Russian side, that will make your machine gun nests, AT guns and ammo depots and rally points absolutely useless. I saw a guy called “HUI HIBIKI” or something along those lines vaporize squad after squad with his 9 man squad. He was just all over the place. Running in and out, throwing grenades, laying frag mines. He was killing with such efficiency I actually thought that he was using some sort of aim assist, because it was just impossible the speed with which he moved in and out of rooms of the house and around it, and wiping out so many men. He destroyed our rally points and everything that was not nailed to the ground, ALL BY HIMSELF. And he was just 1 guy on his team.

The moral of this story is when game is not between two equally ranked teams, then pretty much anything a better team does will win the game. To think that simply building a rally point or ammo box is somehow decisive enough to win is silly. Don’t the other team build theirs? Why not if they are on the same level?

@Soul_Tribunal

You may not care to win, but that is a minority in a FPS Game

Actually, thats not true. Most players just learning how to play could not care less about winning. To them it’s all about progress, getting better. Hence why most of the time they don’t give to craps about some bully yelling “GET THE POINTS!!! GIVE ME COORDINATES NOW YOU DUMMIES”.

@Soul_Tribunal

Because you focus on one thing, and lose peripherials on the entire battlefield scope. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve killed those Teams.
This is a Team Game.

Well that sounds inspiring and all, but I do not believe you would last against some of the teams I’ve encountered. You are dreaming if you think you have enough time to “worry about the entire battlefield and someone can just be the eyes”. Of course, I cannot speak for everyone, but two of the teams I just posted about in screenshots, would have obliterated your team probably fast. Efficient killers, who understand objective play and have specialized squads of engineers, tanks and planes would obliterate any team unlike their own. Not knowing how to kill more than die, is the single greatest weakness that should be remedied early which is what my opinion is. A new player must learn to kill more than die. All else flows from here. Hence why I focused on K/D.

@Soul_Tribunal

I would take Any of the above mentioned players, over someone with your personal values, every single time.
Because that is what actually matters in this game.

No insults taken. And likewise, I hope you aren’t offended either when I say that I am an integral member of my ‘team’ (if they can be call that because this game makes it harder to communicate with players) and my stats show it in every battle.

When I play, my role is clear. My job is to suppress enemy armor, and destroy enemy infantry. I know that if there is another at least half efficient guy on my team, his squad will have an easier time. I know that if there is an engineer on my squad he will be able to get to a better location to install an AT gun. I hope I have a good team around me everytime I start the game. And my job is to make their job easier. If I can blow up 12 tanks and kill 100 infantry in the process, while securing the objective and keeping them alive so that they could kill more men with their skills, then… well… that’s my purpose.

Thank you for your opinions. Enjoy the games! Hope to see you on the battlefield!

[BandytaJeden]

All those empty paragraphs that no one will care to read for one simple reason.

You come here trying to use mental magic to insult low k/d players, while denying any accusation that event attempts to call out this smug attitude.

The worst part is most people reaplying to this i would rather have in my games than some k/d warrior specialist magician.

How do You even improve k/d with 50000 deaths already on account? Answer is playing tanks and planes only for 2 weeks straight, wow so fun.

Inb4, “you imply” “i didn’t insult anyone”

[Elendilll]

@Rickyd123

It is possible but incredibly rare to do

One of these days I am really going to get to the Normandy. That panoramic shot does look so enticing. I don’t know if you’ve been told that Ricky, but you should go into photography - that shot is amazing!!! Without all that HUD stuff, it looks almost freaking REAL.

Kudos, brother!

[Elendilll]

@Soul_Tribunal

Yeah I guess there might be circumstances where you can work your way in without Dying.

Exactly. Everything is possible, but often disregarded in a way because players tend to want to win fast and easy. Ingenuity and realism may not be the top priority for this game - it’s understood that most players have short attention spans and aren’t able to handle realism so they bring the arcade element more to appease to young gamers looking for some quick fix WWII related. Here we are, but as Ricky pointed out, it’s possible because someone took the time and effort and actually did it.

[Soul_Tribunal]

@Elendilll

Again, you implied that in my original post I stated that it was “the sole measuring stick”. I told you it wasn’t, and you clearly confirm that it wasn’t. As to being the most important - yes I still say the same thing. Your K/D ratio is the most important thing you must work on as a new player. As you progress in this you become an ACE, once you begin to be a useful member of the team with your specialization.

We will agree to disagree. And you can label it ACE or whatever you want, but it is not the most important skill, by far. I am sure many here have already agreed to that, but you won’t drop it , and you will tailor your agenda and responses accordingly. As much as I love a good discourse, this is my last post on the matter. I wanted to make sure other people know there are more important matters.
KDR is your religion, and if you believe that matters most, than go for it.
Doesn’t mean it is right though.

@Elendilll

Have you watched Srg_Steiner play? You should watch him. He isn’t doing all these extremes of grayzone camping or one snipe and disappear sniper routine. He is always in the thickest of fighting, helping teammates, encouraging teamates and assisting. And he does so with incredible ability to stay alive and inflict insane losses. You seem to conflate a good K/D with some form of cheating or camping because according to you, it’s simply impossible to stay kill more enemies and die less if you are active member of your team. This is nonsense as you can be both.

Potentially. I have 1700 matches under the belt.
I’ve seen everything. You should watch some of the people I play with or against too. THere are some Amazing Players, very efficient. Who actually don’t abuse the Mechanics of this game (not saying you do Steiner, I don’t doubt for a min that you are a skilled player) Schmetterwurm , Epic, Humber, Polish Orca, the list goes on. But they also sacrifice, burn squads, and play smart. KDR aside. They do what is needed, when it is needed, regardless of cost.
That is the type of person you need. Not someone who is 6 to 1.
I don’t doubt for a minute there are a 1000 players better than me. And most whom I’ve seen, and seen their stats posted, are in and around where I sit in terms of that metric alone. Because they are all around warriors. And yes, I do associate the two at times together, because you can artificially inflate your KDR without being a ‘good’ player. And many people do do that.
Because you don’t play Normandy, I think your opinion on the matter is null and void. You haven’t seen what I, and so many others have. I’m not accusing Steiner of that, he could be the holy Trinity of players who is High KDR, High W/L and High Engineering. But you need all of that, with map knowledge to pull it off properly.

And now we get to add Beloe Lake and Quarry to the mix, where players whom know how to abuse the map, mechanics, can Massacre multitudes without repercussion. Unless, of course, you are like some of the people I play with, and know how to DIG them out from there little spots.

@Elendilll

It’s already been discredited. Implying that a tank positioning itself a safe distance from infantry and inflicting significant damage to infantry is somehow “camping” or
“grayzoning” and not helping YOUR team is your own assumptions.

Sure it is.
Because there is a time to Tank, and there is a time to push as infantry.
I’ve watched many team lose because their tankers were nice and safe and farming away, but because our team played it smart, we overwhelmed anything that leaked through our layered defences.
If you cannot understand that, then there is little I can say to change your mind.

@Elendilll

And if their first games are shared by gamers who constantly yell “GET TO THE OBJECTIVE YOU MORONS!!!” then it’s all ruined. Random players in this game and new players, aren’t concerned with your ideas of “TEAM” and “WINNING” because they haven’t even tried combat enough to know how this game works. Random games are made to be used as experiment with basics - shoot, kill, cover, relocate, lob a grenade, avoid a tank. Players can’t learn that if there is a self serving bully screaming GO TO THE LOCATION NOW>>> MARK COORDINATES NOW!!! BUILD SOMETHING YOU IDIOTS!!!".

Ah but you are assuming , which is dangerous, that that is what I do.
I don’t. I make videos. I explain, I don’t flaunt stats to people or tell them this is the metric that determines what makes them good or not.
You sit here and try and tell people that Kill more, Die less is so important. I make videos showing flanking spots on maps, where you can break walls down in Normandy to access flanks. How to hide a Rally point and booby trap it.
Situational awareness and battlefield knowledge will organically help ones ability to influence. Yes you have to learn how to shoot a gun. But you also need to learn how not to if you want to influence the battle.

@Elendilll

Winning of the game in random matches is random! That’s why the rate of people playing in random game will always be 50%. It’s irrelevant stat because while learning the game you don’t need to focus on winning it. You need to learn to play first before you worry about winning. You have to evolve as an individual player before you can be a teammate.

The good players I know, whom have KDR’s in and around mine, are WELL above 50%.

@Elendilll

I told countless times - I don’t play Normandy. I don’t know. But is it impossible to use a teammate with a plane to bomb those tanks? What’s the problem? Can no AT gun reach them?

I said infantry. Planes can do it, but its janky at times, and Normandy can be notorious for good Allied pilots, so using Planes can be dubious at best.

@Elendilll

There is a reason you got to where you are supposedly. And that high K/D rate you quoted was useful of course to make you develop as player.

Not supposedly. I’ll grab a screen of my stats if you want to see them. I don’t care.
And that High KD might make be a better player potentially, but a MUCH worse team mate.
Hence the low W/L.

@Elendilll

But you want killers no? What good is all your rally points, your macine gun nests and your AT gun installations if players can’t stay alive to use them???

Actually , building Rally Points Increases their survival rate. Want to know why? Because it takes them out of the path of the organic ones that almost all of the Veterans on here have memorized.
I’ve watched new players get evaporated by Rockets, Mortars, Tanks and everything in between because they spawn organic, and get spawn camped.
You teach them to build an off the path Rally, and suddenly, they are safe, unseen, and can now engage the enemy from a position that is not ‘known’ to the enemy.
That is more useful than anything else.

@Elendilll

Well that sounds inspiring and all, but I do not believe you would last against some of the teams I’ve encountered. You are dreaming if you think you have enough time to “worry about the entire battlefield and someone can just be the eyes”. Of course, I cannot speak for everyone, but two of the teams I just posted about in screenshots, would have obliterated your team probably fast. Efficient killers, who understand objective play and have specialized squads of engineers, tanks and planes would obliterate any team unlike their own. Not knowing how to kill more than die, is the single greatest weakness that should be remedied early which is what my opinion is. A new player must learn to kill more than die. All else flows from here. Hence why I focused on K/D

Not once in my post did I say that I win 100% of the time.
I can and will lose games, with randoms, with teams, there is always someone better.
I will never deny that.
But those good players, have learned to do everything. Not just one thing.

@Elendilll

Exactly. Everything is possible, but often disregarded in a way because players tend to want to win fast and easy. Ingenuity and realism may not be the top priority for this game - it’s understood that most players have short attention spans and aren’t able to handle realism so they bring the arcade element more to appease to young gamers looking for some quick fix WWII related. Here we are, but as Ricky pointed out, it’s possible because someone took the time and effort and actually did it.

Actually, if you read my discourse with Ricky, you would see I was referencing a time when the Panzerfaust 60 was not part of Normandy.
You’ve never played it, so you do not understand what it was like then, to what it is like now.
Though you might face it if you are on the opposite end of two Panthers Camping the Grey, farming your team, improving their one ‘stat’.

Or 2 Jumbos vice versa and not a pilot to be seen, or a panther to be had.

Anywho, you have fun doing you. I’m bowing out of this as I’ve said my peace and I really don’t want to spend hours trying to change a mind that won’t be changed.
I don’t doubt that many players have developed a higher end KDR now that they have the mechanics of the game pinned down, who knows. I’d love some to pipe in because I do not want to speak for anyone else. I don’t have enough data to say which came first.

Bis Spatter.

[Srg_Steiner]

@Soul_Tribunal

I don’t doubt for a min that you are a skilled player)

Well im not that skilled but i do have my moments ^^ Sometimes not lol. Ive managed to shoot down 2 ILs once with an Stuka which was one of my greatest joy in game. Cant stand those bullies xD The pilots was not that good though so cant say its one of my biggest pride but still satisfying JUSTICE!

[Soul_Tribunal]

Nice!
I can officially say I’ve never done that. I play to my strengths in the game, and in Enlisted it is NOT as a Pilot LOL (I leave that to Tomcat and Schmetterwurm to be my Air Support).
If I could bind a HOTAS to planes, I might try them again.

I think my crowning achievement (which I have now Tied 10 times now) was 14 Tank Kills in a single match as Infantry.
I’ll find the screen shot of the best and first one, I turned Wilhemstrasse into a Used T34-85 parking lot.
I have my moments too. I’m old, it takes a game or two for me to warm up, and I don’t have the razor sharp skills of someone half my age. But I hold my own. I win more than I lose, and I make videos to help players with the finer points of the game mechanics.

ooo, it didn’t cover the whole street, but this is what the game ended looking like.
Can I interest you in a used T34?

[gastanofrizzi]

@Soul_Tribunal

You’ve never played it, so you do not understand what it was like then, to what it is like now.

May 2021
POV:
you use axis
you play D-DAY
two jumbo spawn in the beach
your team is made by f2p and bot so no plane
you dont have plane but only pz4j
you have only sturmpistole as AT weapon
You cant stop american infantry because of the 5s spawn bug
You realize you are going to die 20 time
Its ok is 100% historically accurate

[Elendilll]

@Soul_Tribunal

We will agree to disagree.

Thank you.

@Soul_Tribunal

And yes, I do associate the two at times together, because you can artificially inflate your KDR without being a ‘good’ player. And many people do do that

Yet amazingly, you choose to conflate the two together. I.E. what you basically said was “you can be a good player with good K/D but since you can also be a bad player with good K/D, I am going to assume you are the latter”.

@Soul_Tribunal

Because you don’t play Normandy, I think your opinion on the matter is null and void

A very dumb post - I haven’t shared any opinions on Normandy. In fact the only thing I said was I don’t know it cause I don’t play it. In fact the entire premise of your question was - how do you get a Jumbo in grayzone in Normandy without dying as infantry? It was so confusing. I don’t play Normandy, and I didn’t even know what Jumbo was referring to. Told you just as much. Was confused why you would have to be infantry to destroy it? Don’t you have those teammates around you to blow it up with a plane or AT gun? Anyways, that’s all I said and you come back with “your opinion is VOID and NULL”??? Lmao, ok. I didn’t know my statement that I don’t play Normandy and two questions were “an opinion”.

@Soul_Tribunal

Sure it is.
Because there is a time to Tank, and there is a time to push as infantry.
I’ve watched many team lose because their tankers were nice and safe and farming away, but because our team played it smart, we overwhelmed anything that leaked through our layered defences.
If you cannot understand that, then there is little I can say to change your mind.

That’s actually complete nonsense. If you are in a tank and actively helping your squad, you don’t need to die because some artificial “commander” decided its not longer time to “TANK” anymore. What a bunch of nonsense?!? Why would you abandon your tank that supresses enemy team, assisting in objective and covers your team as it advances??? This is nonsense.

I dont’ know what you watched in your 1700 games and I don’t even know what “farming” is, but you apparently faced way too many random teams where people weren’t doing much against you, and I am glad you won all those games. If this is all you got out of those games, then congratulations! I am very happy that you are playing on good teams!!! I am not against that.

@Soul_Tribunal

Ah but you are assuming , which is dangerous, that that is what I do.
I don’t. I make videos. I explain, I don’t flaunt stats to people or tell them this is the metric that determines what makes them good or not.
You sit here and try and tell people that Kill more, Die less is so important. I make videos showing flanking spots on maps, where you can break walls down in Normandy to access flanks. How to hide a Rally point and booby trap it.
Situational awareness and battlefield knowledge will organically help ones ability to influence. Yes you have to learn how to shoot a gun. But you also need to learn how not to if you want to influence the battle.

I make videos too. And please spare the me “teacher” drama. You’ve made assumptions and false statements a plenty.

You implied that I said K/D was “sole measuring stick” - that was a blatant lie.
You also implied that people with high K/D are automatically useless because they are obviously farming kills - that was also blatant lie.
You also just stated that I flaunted my stats - that is another blatant lie because I never said anything about my stats or posted them.

So next time you attempt to take a high moral ground please take some time to self reflect. Writing all this nonsense which is not true doesn’t make you sound smarter. It just undermines your statements because you generalize everything and often doing so in poor manner.

@Soul_Tribunal

The good players I know, whom have KDR’s in and around mine, are WELL above 50%.

I am not going to bother to explain 5th grade level math to someone who doesn’t understand random probabilities for unranked, randomized games. If math is not your forte, I certainly do not wish to rekindle long lost passion for education. Anyone with high school level math knows this - random game of ten people vs ten people, where skill is even, will result in equal number of wins/losses over a period of 1000s of games. It’s a mathematical certainty. When balance is tipped - faction too strong, team is stacked or better equipped - then so does a result. But as long as we are talking about random games, it’s inevitable that the balance remains the same, around 50%. You win more? Congrats, you admitted to being on better teams, you admitted to having more than 1700 games so probably have top tier equipment. Congrats on your victories. That doesn’t change the fact that your team wins more not because you are some kind of monster of team games, but simply because the teams against you, are either less stacked, uncoordinated and full of random players of lesser skill level. Gloating over victories over teams whose composition was random, whose skill level might have been 1700 times lower than yours is just silly. Hence why I never once criticize enemy teams - neither in defeats nor in victories. I don’t know what they had to work with. Claiming that our victories are solely based on how WE play is silly. It gives no credit or accounts for any enemy shortcomings or weaknesses there from start.

@Soul_Tribunal

Not supposedly. I’ll grab a screen of my stats if you want to see them. I don’t care.
And that High KD might make be a better player potentially, but a MUCH worse team mate.
Hence the low W/L.

Again this is nonsense. This is crazy coming from someone who appears to be able to think clearly - how can high K/D MIGHT make a good player POTENTIALLY, but DECISIVELY WITHOUT DOUBT makes him a bad teammate? How did you come to that definitive conclusion? What about his lethality, so unequivocally and decisevely made him right away a BAD TEAMMATE? You didn’t even use "might or potentially’ - just flat out “bad teammate”.

Btw, I don’t need to see your stats. I don’t want you to flaunt them or accuse me later of some other lunacy. You do what you want.

@Soul_Tribunal

You teach them to build an off the path Rally, and suddenly, they are safe, unseen, and can now engage the enemy from a position that is not ‘known’ to the enemy.
That is more useful than anything else.

Top tier teams don’t attack in regular routes. They flank and they move off grid to avoid your mortars and your artillery fire because they assume the team against them will target those exact routes. And that precisely how they stumble into a rally point full of guys who all of the sudden do not feel safe, and since they have no experience killing enemies and staying alive, they will be dead and those rally points overwhelmed in seconds.

It seems to be a theme of yours to give examples where you think enemy is just a bunch of random guys, that can’t do anything. Ok, what happens when you play a top tier team? Want to show me a stat? Show me a stat where you won a game with your buddies where an enemy team LOST but had 8-10 players with badges. I’ve posted at least two. Have one? Post it. Cause I would like to see your results vs a team like that! I’ll wait!

@Soul_Tribunal

But those good players, have learned to do everything. Not just one thing

No one questioned that. The only difference is my emphasis on learning to survive and kill first and then specializing. And also your belief that somehow doing that definitely makes you a bad team player, somehow.

@Soul_Tribunal

Anywho, you have fun doing you. I’m bowing out of this as I’ve said my peace and I really don’t want to spend hours trying to change a mind that won’t be changed.

Likewise. You don’t need to change my mind. In fact your gaming experience (1700) is almost equal to mine in terms of games, and whether it’s one campaign or four is irrelevant because we aren’t discussing campaign specific issues.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. Good luck in your games!.

[Elendilll]

@Srg_Steiner

Well im not that skilled but i do have my moments ^^ Sometimes not lol. Ive managed to shoot down 2 ILs once with an Stuka which was one of my greatest joy in game. Cant stand those bullies xD The pilots was not that good though so cant say its one of my biggest pride but still satisfying JUSTICE!

Not as fun as shooting planes with tanks! Talking about self satisfaction!

Great games always, Steiner!

[EVA_对你来说是啥]

I’m surprised people are still responding to this obvious bait. Like OP won’t even post their stats, and the few screenshots Shiivex dug up shows them being a mediocre player.

[Srg_Steiner]

lol…that must been an carnage to behold Im impressed Tank hunting is so much fun for sure

[Srg_Steiner]

Yeah must be rewarding to ^^ Im still trying to shoot down an plane with GRB.39 but its just close every time. Not sure if its enough though but will surely leave an large hole in their wing ^^

[Elendilll]

@Srg_Steiner

lol…that must been an carnage to behold Im impressed Tank hunting is so much fun for sure

Lol it was… Actually the pilot wasnt that effective. I mean I could see his stats in the team statistics and he just kept trying to bomb but was either too new or too inexperienced, so he just make a lot of craters around me. The team was already winning however, so I decided to wait for him. Lol then he appeared, same route, same strafe, only this time I was waiting… Steiner, lol you should have seen the animation for the plane being hit at point blank range with HE round!!! He exploded into fireball and his debris made spectacular fireworks!!!

[Elendilll]

@Srg_Steiner

Yeah must be rewarding to ^^ Im still trying to shoot down an plane with GRB.39 but its just close every time. Not sure if its enough though but will surely leave an large hole in their wing ^^

I’ve shot them down regularly with that premium machine gun squad. Those guys are awesome. Especially biplanes. In fact, experimented with that squad vs planes and it had some fantastic results with everything but the flying tank the Soviets have.

I load them out with extra ammo and they seem to do incredibly well in a location with enough visibility to see the enemy plane strafing routes. So well that enemy planes always divert to deal with the threat.

[Srg_Steiner]

lol that wasnt my reply to you but its ok since im impressed asw that you managed to hit an plane with those things with their turret speed and all ^^ especially if it was an pnz4 with its trajectory…But yeah must been an blast for sure xD The explosions can be pretty intense even in dogfights so can imagine what an HE round would do to it

Tank mgs incl infantry with mg are also pretty dangerous to planes, sometimes you just get an salvo out from no where and if it hit it hits pretty good and can even be devastating

[Elendilll]

@Srg_Steiner

Tank mgs incl infantry with mg are also pretty dangerous to planes, sometimes you just get an salvo out from no where and if it hit it hits pretty good and can even be devastating

Well using tank does seem like a luxury you can seldom afford - poor turret rotation speed, not to mention vertical limits - make it a fool’s task, I guess. And maybe even MG squad use is better suited elsewhere, but there are moments when occasional Russian ace does get annoying good And if he is superb in air, and manages to get my plane down, I use the last resort - my MG squad. The benefit is you know exactly where to wait for him, and you will have an element of surprise.

[Soul_Tribunal]

@Elendilll

Yet amazingly, you choose to conflate the two together. I.E. what you basically said was “you can be a good player with good K/D but since you can also be a bad player with good K/D, I am going to assume you are the latter”.

Not at all. I used the phrasing ‘at times’ if you bothered to read, meaning that it, as a number, can be altered using methods, as described. So for me the KDR Number means you can be both when it stands alone and is the ‘best stat to show you are a good player’ as you say.

@Elendilll

A very dumb post - I haven’t shared any opinions on Normandy. In fact the only thing I said was I don’t know it cause I don’t play it. In fact the entire premise of your question was - how do you get a Jumbo in grayzone in Normandy without dying as infantry? It was so confusing. I don’t play Normandy, and I didn’t even know what Jumbo was referring to. Told you just as much. Was confused why you would have to be infantry to destroy it? Don’t you have those teammates around you to blow it up with a plane or AT gun? Anyways, that’s all I said and you come back with “your opinion is VOID and NULL”??? Lmao, ok. I didn’t know my statement that I don’t play Normandy and two questions were “an opinion”.

Actually, that was in reference to when I am citing examples of things, and you are countering my argument having, as you stated, never been put in that tactical situation.

@Elendilll

That’s actually complete nonsense. If you are in a tank and actively helping your squad, you don’t need to die because some artificial “commander” decided its not longer time to “TANK” anymore. What a bunch of nonsense?!? Why would you abandon your tank that supresses enemy team, assisting in objective and covers your team as it advances??? This is nonsense.

I dont’ know what you watched in your 1700 games and I don’t even know what “farming” is, but you apparently faced way too many random teams where people weren’t doing much against you, and I am glad you won all those games. If this is all you got out of those games, then congratulations! I am very happy that you are playing on good teams!!! I am not against that.

This statement right here proves that you have NO idea what I am taking about, because you’ve never been in Normandy to see it.
Yet you counter it with nonsense. You counter it with arguments having never experienced it. Hence my null and void comment.
There are no maps in the other 3 campaigns that can come close to the battle that is Normandy.
And you having never been there counter so many things I talk about that associate with that map.

@Elendilll

You implied that I said K/D was “sole measuring stick” - that was a blatant lie.
You also implied that people with high K/D are automatically useless because they are obviously farming kills - that was also blatant lie.
You also just stated that I flaunted my stats - that is another blatant lie because I never said anything about my stats or posted them.

I said , if you had bothered to read, that it was an implication due to the lack of any other metrics in your original post stating what makes a good player. I cited examples and referenced many things as a result.
Showing that a ‘good’ player is a culmination of multiple skill sets.
And that you do not need your metric to be that.
Nowhere in your OP did you state that Engineering Score is what is a good metric, Kills on the ‘Point’ are what makes you a good player. You said, KDR is the best indicator of that. So no, not a lie.
As well, where the hell did I say you flaunt your stats? I’m confused by that.

I never said people with a High KD are useless. I said that you can artificially change it so it cannot be used IMO as something that defines a player.

@Elendilll

I am not going to bother to explain 5th grade level math to someone who doesn’t understand random probabilities for unranked, randomized games. If math is not your forte, I certainly do not wish to rekindle long lost passion for education. Anyone with high school level math knows this - random game of ten people vs ten people, where skill is even, will result in equal number of wins/losses over a period of 1000s of games. It’s a mathematical certainty. When balance is tipped - faction too strong, team is stacked or better equipped - then so does a result. But as long as we are talking about random games, it’s inevitable that the balance remains the same, around 50%. You win more? Congrats, you admitted to being on better teams, you admitted to having more than 1700 games so probably have top tier equipment. Congrats on your victories. That doesn’t change the fact that your team wins more not because you are some kind of monster of team games, but simply because the teams against you, are either less stacked, uncoordinated and full of random players of lesser skill level. Gloating over victories over teams whose composition was random, whose skill level might have been 1700 times lower than yours is just silly. Hence why I never once criticize enemy teams - neither in defeats nor in victories. I don’t know what they had to work with. Claiming that our victories are solely based on how WE play is silly. It gives no credit or accounts for any enemy shortcomings or weaknesses there from start.

So now you, whom complained about insults etc, and I’ve tried to be fair and concise in what I have said is going to be sly with your comments and throw little insults like that?
No thanks.

@Elendilll

Again this is nonsense. This is crazy coming from someone who appears to be able to think clearly - how can high K/D MIGHT make a good player POTENTIALLY, but DECISIVELY WITHOUT DOUBT makes him a bad teammate? How did you come to that definitive conclusion? What about his lethality, so unequivocally and decisevely made him right away a BAD TEAMMATE? You didn’t even use "might or potentially’ - just flat out “bad teammate”

Because you have missed my points, there is no reason trying to explain again what I was saying.
You are picking and choosing what you want to understand to solidify your narrative. Nothing more.

@Elendilll

Top tier teams don’t attack in regular routes. They flank and they move off grid to avoid your mortars and your artillery fire because they assume the team against them will target those exact routes. And that precisely how they stumble into a rally point full of guys who all of the sudden do not feel safe, and since they have no experience killing enemies and staying alive, they will be dead and those rally points overwhelmed in seconds.

I wasn’t talking top tier teams, I was talking about new players and protecting them.
I don’t take organic spawns at all. Unless I have no choice. But teaching them how to do it is one of the most important fundementals IMO.

@Elendilll

Show me a stat where you won a game with your buddies where an enemy team LOST but had 8-10 players with badges. I’ve posted at least two. Have one? Post it. Cause I would like to see your results vs a team like that! I’ll w

No buddies. I was not in a team, this was me, random Doing my thing.
I don’t care how many times I died. I had mostly bots for a team, but I just threw more ‘warm’ bodies on the point and made there life hell with every sacrifice.

Anywho, I’m out.

small edit. I don’t min max my Squads. I don’t use top tier gear even though I have access to it, I still run 60% BA’s , 30 SA’s, and 10% Autos, just because I saw you made mention I have maxed out squads, gear etc, which is very much a false assumption

[Soul_Tribunal]

Yeah Gastanofrizzi,

I know you get it. You and I and so many others lived through that hell.
But now I have some counters to them, and I make sure that when I tank I tank so I can be killed.

Thanks for the post.

[Elendilll]

@Soul_Tribunal

I said , if you had bothered to read, that it was an implication due to the lack of any other metrics in your original post stating what makes a good player. I cited examples and referenced many things as a result.
Showing that a ‘good’ player is a culmination of multiple skill sets.
And that you do not need your metric to be that.
Nowhere in your OP did you state that Engineering Score is what is a good metric, Kills on the ‘Point’ are what makes you a good player. You said, KDR is the best indicator of that. So no, not a lie

That’s absolutely either a lie or lack of reading. Whichever you choose, I leave it up to you. I specifically said that after you achieve K/D 1:1 you move to specialize. Specialization increase your K/D and they are formed by other metrics. I didn’t go into specifics but I clearly wrote a lot about specializations and diverting into other areas, but only after you’ve mastered the most basic and simplest of them - all kill more than die.

Bottom line is very simply. You are a team player and your philosophy is TEAMMATE first and then learn everything else later. My philosophy is entirely different and in fact similar to what people are actually taught in real life - you learn to kill and stay alive and only then become assigned to teams, units and etc. It’s not so hard to understand, really. Why does our difference in opinions somehow make you think that you are the only one sitting on a high horse??? I don’t get it. Is it because you think you are right and that means naturally I am wrong?

@Soul_Tribunal

his statement right here proves that you have NO idea what I am taking about, because you’ve never been in Normandy to see it.

I never made any statements or conversations adhere to whatever is going in Normandy or Berlin or Tunisia. I never made any campaign specific posts. If you decided to tie all your experiences to Normandy, and somehow they are so drastically different from the rest of the game, then it’s your decision and I do not understand why you decided to penalize me for it?

After all, you didn’t specify what you were talking about at all - you just said YOUR OPINION IS NOID AND NULL. Doesn’t sound very nice inspiring or explanatory. Feel free to re read your own post.

@Soul_Tribunal

So now you, whom complained about insults etc, and I’ve tried to be fair and concise in what I have said is going to be sly with your comments and throw little insults like that?

At the very least I am happy you didn’t again assail the math portion of my post. Perhaps you finally realized mathematical doctrines in regards to randomization.

@Soul_Tribunal

Because you have missed my points, there is no reason trying to explain again what I was saying.
You are picking and choosing what you want to understand to solidify your narrative. Nothing more.

That’s a lie. I quoted you directly and that was your statement. I specifically pointed out that your statement was wrong because it didn’t explain how did you arrive at “GOOD K/D being a bad team player”. You didn’t explain that at all and made it look like some sort of fact. I pointed out all the side words you used to describe how K/D is good, only to use absolutely no other words to unequivocally state that “good K/D is a bad teammate”. And I pointed out that factor. I asked you how you got to that conclusion? So I ask again, how is a good K/D player who assists his team with whatever specialization he has, actively participates is a BAD TEAMMPLAYER? And if he is not, then what is the puprose of all that you wrote???

@Soul_Tribunal

I wasn’t talking top tier teams, I was talking about new players and protecting them.

You do not protect new players like that. They don’t need your protections. They need to learn how to play and not worry about game outcomes! They need to move around, learn maps, stay alive and learn basics of survival. That’s why random games are not supposed to be WIN AT ALL COSTS.