What do you think about the new AVT with a 20-round magazine?

[TheSaboteur59]

In my opinion - it’s just a shame that the USSR had rifles with the smallest magazines of all automatic rifles. Moreover, the existence of such magazines has long been confirmed in reality. If it was justified before the FG damage buff, it is no longer justified after it. is that it was necessary for balance. People had been asking for this for over a year. There are probably more than 15-20 posts on the Russian forum about stores for 20 AVT-40s. Not to mention that the USSR is about to fight Japan, and the Type Hei automatic rifle has a 30-round magazine. 15 versus 30, it’s not even funny. This is truly a great victory for the Soviet faction, and I congratulate them on it.
By the way, there is a 20-round magazine of the KB-180 design in the game. Let’s talk about it in a little more detail.

AVT-40 with 20-round KB-180 mag

The 20-round magazine from KB-180, which is in the game, is circled in red.

HISTORY

In November 1942, by personal order of Stalin, Tokarev and the design bureaus OKB-16 and OKB 180 were tasked with manufacturing a 20-round magazine. Field tests of the magazines were conducted, with the 20-round magazine from KB-180 showing the best results. After the tests, it was planned to manufacture 3,000 rifles with the KB-180 magazine by the end of 1942. Thus, work was underway at Plant No. 314 to develop the new magazine, and in January 1942, a trial batch of 1,500 rifles with increased-capacity magazines was produced. By June 1943, a total of 11,425 such rifles had been manufactured. Rifles with 20-round magazines were sent to Central Arsenal No. 36, and by August 1943, there were 18,500 AVT rifles with 20-round magazines there. In total, more than 18,000 20-round magazines were produced for the KB-180.

AVT-40 with KB-180 magazine for 20 rounds.

Future fate

Unfortunately, the future fate of the 20-round magazine leaves much to be desired.
As a result, the GAU decided not to issue the AVT with 20-round magazines to the troops and to return them to the factory to be replaced with 10-round magazines. It was decided to leave 200 rifles with 20-round magazines that had passed inspection at TsABV No. 36 and keep them in storage.
However, at least most likely the SVT with a 20-round magazine was at the front and participated in the war.
And besides, if we recall the Type Hey automatic rifle, which remained a prototype, with only a couple of units ever made and no participation in the war whatsoever, then… It’s not critical.

Conclusion

Special thanks to the developers for deciding to add a more or less mass produce magazine rather than some kind of prototype.

[Adamnpee]

@TheSaboteur59

My opinion is that it was necessary for balance.

And can you explain why? Rather than copy pasting random wall of texts from internet, completely irrelevant to in-game balance.

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Anyway, my opinion is here:

@Adamnpee

The Soviets already have several unique advantages on BR5.

I’m not comparing just one individual rifle to rifles of other factions.

The AVT 20 is unnecessary power creep in the context of the Soviet faction.

They simply didn’t need it. Since they have several things over other factions that outweigh the slight disadvantage of only having a 15 round SF rifles.

Now they are taking that unique disadvantage away from them.

All factions are going to feel exactly the same.

[TheSaboteur59]

I probably didn’t express myself very well. It’s not even a matter of balance, it’s just a shame that the USSR had rifles with the smallest magazines of all. More precisely, it is also a matter of balance, yes Moreover, the existence of such magazines has long been confirmed in reality. If it was justified before the FG damage buff, it is no longer justified after it. Not to mention that the USSR is about to fight Japan, and the Type Hei automatic rifle has a 30-round magazine. 15 versus 30, it’s not even funny. So a 20-round magazine is quite justified, especially against the backdrop of the upcoming Soviet-Japanese fron

[Adamnpee]

@TheSaboteur59

I probably didn’t express myself very well. It’s not even a matter of balance, it’s just a shame that the USSR had rifles with the smallest magazines of all.

So what? They have other unique stuff. Like AR with dmg above average, RD-44, body armors, paratroopers with interchangeable weapons.

What’s the tradeoff for all those benefits?

Not to mention now their SF rifle feels just like US/German ones. Great.

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Overall terrible change. Addition of AVT-40 20 was completely unnecessary. Especially since it replaced actually unique weapon.

[TheSaboteur59]

Well, I’m not feeling very well today. Yes, it’s partly a balance issue. Again, it will be the USSR vs. Japan, so we need a magazine with 20 rounds for the AVT. To counter the Type Hey automatic rifle.

[Adamnpee]

@TheSaboteur59

Again, it will be the USSR vs. Japan, so we need a magazine with 20 rounds for the AVT. To counter the Type Hey automatic rifle.

To counter type hei auto, it would be better to change federov to a SF rifle.

Since it uses literally the same cartridge => above average magazine capacity compared to other SF rifles, but slightly lower dmg.

Again, there was a better solution to this imaginary scenario that isn’t even present in the game.

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Avt 20 just made avt 15 totally obsolete. (The insignificant difference in recoil and reload speed is laughable)

[TheSaboteur59]

@Adamnpee

Like AR with dmg above average

For this damage, Soviet automatic rifles paid with greater recoil than the FG. The situation was as follows: the AVT-40 had a smaller magazine and greater recoil, but caused more damage, while the FG-42-2 caused less damage but had a larger magazine and more comfortable recoil. However, the developers decided to shift the balance. As a result, the AVT was made to have less recoil and now has a 20-round magazine, while the FG was given more damage.

@Adamnpee

, RD-44

And The USSR does not have an equivalent to the MG-42, a machine gun chambered for rifle cartridges with a higher rate of fire. Nor does the USSR have an equivalent to the MG-81.

@Adamnpee

body armors

I have always been in favor of all factions in the game having body armor. Moreover, German body armor has been in the editor for a long time.

@Adamnpee

paratroopers with interchangeable weapons.

The USSR paid for its universal paratroopers by having fewer paratroopers than other factions and by not having any unique weapons for its paratroopers. It is unlikely that the developers will add new ones.

[TheSaboteur59]

Suddenly, Fyodorov is in his place in the game - in the hands of Soviet stormtroopers. Historically, during the period of greatest use of Fyodorov’s Automat in the USSR, it was Soviet stormtroopers who used it in the Soviet-Finnish War. So its use by Soviet stormtroopers in the game is historically accurate.

[IceySmooth]

I dont think you should start involving other balances, since it gets into whatabout-ism.

The rifle seems ok, I think its mostly for ppl who felt abused by 20rd FG42s.

Personally im happy about the now multiple different variants of top tier rifle, helps differentiate the experience vs just running the min maxed thing.

Id prob like the OG AVT40 to get ADS perk or maybe the 20rdr to loose its bayonet? mostly to make them feel even more differnt from each other.

I dont think its end of the world

[Adamnpee]

@TheSaboteur59

For this damage, Soviet automatic rifles paid with greater recoil than the FG. The situation was as follows: the AVT-40 had a smaller magazine and greater recoil, but caused more damage, while the FG-42-2 caused less damage but had a larger magazine and more comfortable recoil. However, the developers decided to shift the balance. As a result, the AVT was made to have less recoil and now has a 20-round magazine, while the FG was given more damage.

Why are you comparing just SF rifles? Balance between factions is not all about just one weapon type.

Yes, Soviet had slightly worse SF rifles after recent FG buffs.

But that really doesn’t justify them to receive copypasted power creep weapon.

@TheSaboteur59

And The USSR does not have an equivalent to the MG-42, a machine gun chambered for rifle cartridges with a higher rate of fire. Nor does the USSR have an equivalent to the MG-81.

It does have Maxim Tokarev so I have no clue what you are talking about.

Plus neither one is better than RD-44. They’re not even meta unlike RD.

The game is much more in favor of active mobile playstyle. MG42 100 and MG81 can’t compete in such playstyle because of higher movement dispersion penalty.

@TheSaboteur59

The USSR paid for its universal paratroopers by having fewer paratroopers than other factions and by not having any unique weapons for its paratroopers. It is unlikely that the developers will add new ones.

Not a single faction has 3 paratroopers of the same BR. So yet again, I have no clue what you are talking about.

Unless you think it’s some kind of an advantage to take lower BR paratrooper squad to higher BR.

[Adamnpee]

@TheSaboteur59

Suddenly, Fyodorov is in his place in the game - in the hands of Soviet stormtroopers. Historically, during the period of greatest use of Fyodorov’s Automat in the USSR, it was Soviet stormtroopers who used it in the Soviet-Finnish War. So its use by Soviet stormtroopers in the game is historically accurate.

How is that related to in-game balance? Lol

Historically the weapon had much worse performance .

[TheSaboteur59]

@Adamnpee

It doess have Maxim Tokarev so I have no clue what you are talking about.

Plus neither one is better than RD-44.

The game is much more in favor of active mobile playstyle. MG42 100 and MG81 can’t compete in such playstyle because of higher movement dispersion penalty.

The Maxim-Tokarev is more similar to the American Browning M1919M6. There are no Soviet machine guns with a higher rate of fire than the German MG. And the RD-44, which I’ve played with quite a lot, still lacks damage, which is due to the intermediate cartridge. I’m not saying that the RD-44 is bad, it’s just different. And honestly, I prefer German machine guns; nothing compares to the ability to clear points from the hip and cut down entire squads with a bipod. And even without a bipod, together with a kneeling position, and even without it, the MG is quite good if you shoot in short bursts.

@Adamnpee

Not a single faction has 3 paratroopers of the same BR. So I have no clue what you are talking about.

Unless you think it’s some kind of advantage to take lower BR paratrooper squad to higher BR.

I always found it pretty funny that many Soviet Meins complain that their paratroopers don’t have unique weapons and would prefer them to have unique weapons instead of versatility. Meanwhile, German Meins complain that Soviet paratroopers can change their weapons, while theirs cannot.

@Adamnpee

Why are you comparing just SF rifles? Balance between the faction is not all about just one weapon type.

Yes, Soviet had slightly worse SF rifles after recent FG buffs.

But that really doesn’t justify them to receive copypasted power creep weapon.

Because automatic rifles are main meta. Fyodorov’s Automat is a good weapon. But Fyodorov’s Automat can only be issued to 4 people in a squad, while the FG-42-2 can be issued to 9 people in a squad.

[Dregomz]

@TheSaboteur59

And The USSR does not have an equivalent to the MG-42, a machine gun chambered for rifle cartridges with a higher rate of fire. Nor does the USSR have an equivalent to the MG-81.

Soviets don’t need crap like MG42 100 or even worse MG81 as they have superior and ultra accurate RD-44 that always kills in two shots no matter how far you are.

@TheSaboteur59

So a 20-round magazine is quite justified, especially against the backdrop of the upcoming Soviet-Japanese fron

So we are justifying pissing at German grave just because of imaginary map that may or may not come somewhere in future? Hey use crystal ball and tell me how many more months Germany will have to suffer through being so weak at all BRs but BR4?

@TheSaboteur59

As a result, the AVT was made to have less recoil and now has a 20-round magazine, while the FG was given more damage.

Except AVT got buffed thrice in it’s recoil, and now has 20 rounds and they can also carry soviet armor so in that min-maxed scenario Soviets are going to win every time.

[Dregomz]

@TheSaboteur59

But Fyodorov’s Automat can only be issued to 4 people in a squad

[Darenius1]

@TheSaboteur59

Not to mention that the USSR is about to fight Japan, and the Type Hei automatic rifle has a 30-round magazine.

I dont think manchuria was every officially confirmed to be coming so why is that relevant here? Even then the auto hai would be unable to down in a single shot due to low damage when useing body armor.

Now that they lost the one thing that made body armor somewhat justifieable the devs should just get rid of it…

[TheSaboteur59]

One squad is an old event squad, and the second is a premium squad. “Definitely” every Soviet player has them.

[OggeKing]

My position (especially one who does not play Soviets)? I think it’s good that they get some variaty, and a actually present peice of equipment at the front added to the tech tree. Now it just remains to see if the weapons will be successfully differantiated.

Honestly, easiest way would just be to increase the reload time and aiming time on the 20 rounder, that’s a totally fair compromise as well as a interesting tactical choice on the person (fast reaction shooting vs sustained fire). For reload speed I’d actually take the effective RoF, or specificly in this case the time it takes to spend all ammo, and simply increase the 20 round version reload time so that they average out the same (I’m assuming they’ve got the same total ammo count, I suppose they could also decrease total ammo on specificly the 20 rounder with the premise of “rarer magazine” for another peice of balance), then simply tacking on aim time after that.

I’m not that worried about “powercreep” here, as these issues can and will be ironed out over time, finding the right tweaks takes time and more data.

[TheSaboteur59]

@Dregomz

Soviets don’t need crap like MG42 100 or even worse MG81 as they have superior and ultra accurate RD-44 that always kills in two shots no matter how far you are.

TheSaboteur59:

German MGs aren’t bad. And the RD-44 isn’t bad either. They’re just different. And they have different play styles.

@Dregomz

So we are justifying pissing at German grave just because of imaginary map that may or may not come somewhere in future? Hey use crystal ball and tell me how many more months Germany will have to suffer through being so weak at all BRs but BR4?

They are NOT fictional. I have information that at least the Soviet-Japanese event will happen sooner or later. I also have information about its rewards. Unfortunately, I can’t post it here for everyone to see, as I’ll be banned for leaking information, but if you want, I can send it to you in a private message. And the Soviet-Japanese event will most likely be followed by a full-fledged front soon after.

@Dregomz

Except AVT got buffed thrice in it’s recoil, and now has 20 rounds and they can also carry soviet armor so in that min-maxed scenario Soviets are going to win every time.

I will never tire of repeating this: GIVE THE GERMANS THEIR OWN BODY ARMOR.

[Dregomz]

@TheSaboteur59

One squad is an old event squad, and the second is a premium squad. “Definitely” every Soviet player has them.

Doesn’t mean everyone has but it’s a fact that anyone could have them and Soviets have clear advantage. I’m using one premium para squad every single match at BR2/3/5.

[Valkay]

Im glad USSR got a 20 round SF rifle, it was about time.
Im also glad that the devs didnt cause themselves further balancing problems by giving a 25 round mag which is impossible to balance fairly.
you either have 25/25 or 25/50 ammo by default which is just not fair towards other factions since FG and T20 have 20/40 ammo (without ammo pouch obviously) and Type Hei auto 30/30 ammo.

Though 25 round mag AVT could be added as event item without breaking the balance.