what kind of copium are Russian “historians” on to stretch a machine gun into an assault rifle?
The concept of assault rifle didnt even exist back then, but lets look at the facts:
The Fedorov Avtomat was designed by Fyodorov after he had returned from France.
His main inspiration was the Chauchat, a French automatic rifle, automatic rifle just means light machine gun since the term LMG didnt exist back than.
Contemporary weapons such as the BAR1918 and Lewis gun were also designed for Automatic rifle role.
The 6.5 Arisaka round is not an intermediate cartridge and was chosen because it was available in large numbers and the 7.62×54mmR is unsuitable for WW1 automatic rifle role.
The term “automatic rifle” didnt exist in Russian at all so Fydorov “invented” the Avtomat term since machine gun meant a heavy automatic weapon usually fired from fixed position like the Maxim machine gun, however unlike the English term automatic rifle, the Russian Avtomat term was incorrectly applied to describe the completely different assault rifle, which is obviously the source of this Mandela effect.
This isnt just unique to Russia though, the term submachine gun and machine pistol in English are also messed up big time.
Also in Hungarian Assault rifle is “gépkarabély”=machinecarbine which is only half correct.
Contrary to popular belief, the automatic rifle was not the predecessor of assault rifles, the submachine gun was the assault rifle´s predecessor while automatic rifles ultimately evolved into multi-role battle rifles such as FG42.
TL;DR: Fedorov Avtomat was designed for automatic rifle role which just meant portable light machine gun in WW1.
Yes, and the Avtomat is not a proper name, it is a new class of weapons and yes, in fact, for some time later, submachine guns were also attributed to this class due to ignorance, but this does not cancel the role assigned to “avtomat” by the creator.
And I will also add that yes, now there was no automatic rifle at that time, but then after the creation of AVT and ABC, they were called automatic rifles only because they could shoot in fully automatic mode, and not because they were designed for this, about ABC in general it was written that it could only be used in fully automatic mode. in the most extreme cases, since it was poorly made and excessively wore out parts more than it did with machine guns, the Fedorov submachine gun’s recommendation of shooting single shots was justified in the same way as it is now with modern avtomats by the fact that it is so simple to be more precise, the conditions for using a fully automatic firing mode for the Fedorov submachine gun and the conditional ak are the same
P. s. my translator is cursed he translates from Russian to English in one way, and then the same text from English to Russian in another way so I’m afraid to think what is really written here and I apologize in advance for poor literacy
So basically “fedorov named his gun avtomat (AR) because the proper nomenclature didn’t exist back then” is what I understand here.
This hardly holds any value and is at most a historical curiosity, especially in this topic.
Well, as if yes, but then my nonsense on the type that the mg 42 is an assault rifle also makes sense
Then especially the Chauchat machine gun can be attributed to assault rifles because for those times it was a new class of weapons
Well, the nomenclature that was created at that time turned into modernity, this should also be taken into account.
? How so?
I’d say it contradicts your point as modern(ish) definition of AR require gun to fire an intermediate round. That’s clearly not the case for fedorov.
So if I understand you correctly, the MP 43 which was identitical to the later STG 44 in all but name should not be treated as an AR but like an SMG? But the stg as an assault rifle?
The only thing that changed for the gun was the propaganda around it.
Alternatively, it would even work nicely for the Soviet Assault Engineers squad as a BR2 AR:
Hm?
Reportedly, Fedorov himself originally called his weapon “Rifle-Machine Gun”, and the term “Avtomat” was later coined by Nikolai Filatov, head of Officer’s Rifle School of the Russian Imperial Army.
No need to apologise, google translate is trash when it comes to translating English to Russian or Russian to English so I dont blame you.
But there is no point to argue if we can’t understand eachother’s arguments. So have a nice day comrade.
A fair remark, I forgot about this fact, but I still hold the opinion that the Fedorov machine gun is exactly what the machine gun is, since I have run out of arguments, I argue this by the fact that the fact that the Fedorov machine gun is the first machine gun in principle is not rasterized and if it is transferred to the class of self-loading rifles or machine guns, then reportovi even more topics will appear on the forums with the return of the slot machine to its old place
Hah, I use Yandex translator, there are rumors that it was developed on the basis of all the stolen personal data of users of the popular Yandex browser in Russia, so it translates from English to Russian supposedly more accurately, but as for me, sometimes my knowledge of English obtained from erge is more accurate than what the translator offers
P.s. The translator translated the assault rifle as a machine gun again… That’s exactly what I’m complaining about.
I say that in the media avtomat Fedorov exactly that avtomat and so far he has raised only a few topics about his class in the game because we are all involved in the topic of people, and for an ordinary person, the avtomat is a Russian synonym for an assault rifle and if the avtomat Fedorov is transferred to the class of automatic rifle , then there will be confusion with the name you can’t remove the word automaton from it because it’s literally called that everywhere (everywhere either the Fedorov machine gun or if the forum where the weapon is described is thematic and dedicated to weapons, then both the machine gun and the automatic rifle are written, one without the other is not mentioned (besides, we already have Fedorov rifles and in fact even automatic ones))
на русском
говорю что в медиа автомат федорова именно что автомат и пока что он поднял лишь несколько тем по поводу его класса в игре т.к. мы тут все вовлеченные в тему люди, а для рядового человека автомат это русский синоним штурмовой винтовки и если автомат федорова перевести в класс автоматических винтовок то возникнет путаница с названием т.к. из него слово автомат не уберешь т.к. он буквально так везде и называется (везде либо автомат федорова или если форум где описывается оружие тематический и посвящен оружие то пишется и автомат и автоматическая винтовка, одно без другого не упоминается (к тому же у нас уже есть винтовки федорова и по сути даже автоматические))
this is too radical a decision for me, but if the developers introduce a separate mode with a historical selection of weapons or near historical, then it’s fine, one machine gun per platoon and then some elite for a lot of revival points, then it’s normal
