lol jUsT fLaNk iT wont work. Jumbo will be in the grey zone. Good luck flanking it.
You know the puma is fast as fuck and can rush down jumbo on most maps right? But yes I do agree panther should be removed
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Although not 100% accurate, but you have the point. Jumboās and Panthers have weak spots so they can destroy each other, those points are just very small and sometimes buggy to hit. One shotting is rare but with 2-4 shots player can get the job done. Overall this is correct in praxis. Problem was Jumbo before Panther was introduced. Now itās ballanced. And allies also have M10 now to challenge Panther armor. Now with all those new tanks gray zone camping isnāt a big problem anymore. And of course letās not forget about bombers. With a precise bombing run party for any tank is over. If a team donāt have a pilot or they donāt mark tanks for pilots, that team have no right to ask for any nerfs just because they are getting pwned.
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Almost never worked in praxis though, before Panther was introduced. Yes, Jumbo have weak spot but itās too buggy to hit, especially at distance and if Jumbo is moving. And if you didnāt managed to take out at least 3-4 Jumbo crew man with first 2-3 shots, itās was game over and most of time those Jumbos camped frontally in grey zones e.g. Air field.
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That 100% needs to be fixed regardless
Tank DMs need polish across the board
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In maps where there are so much cover and in conquest it doesnt matter. In conquest you dont mostly see even p4. Take airfield or any other map where there is a no manās / open land. Before you rush to Jumbo, someone will tag puma and the tanker will know it is rushing and someone will be waiting with Piat, c4 and jumbo sometimes face front waiting for puma. you do know that puma is just one shot with both jumbo and piat right ? And even in the side, if you somehow manage to hit ammo, it will take on average 3 rounds to explode jumbo. And by that time puma goes boom. Unless the tanker is newbie which goes for any fraction, you wont be able to flank it lol. Jumbo most of the time stays for most of the match in airfield FYI.
Lol, you want panther at level 31 which is somewhat rare to be seen and having m10 counter to be removed, but jumbo which is at level 20 and almost you can see on any maps which has no counter except panther (lvl 31) to stayā¦ lolā¦
Actually i think it would be a good idea to remove Jumbo and add a extra vehicle for allies. i.e 3 instead of 2. As this is what happened in WW2, Axis had hard hitting vehicles but few in numbers while Allies had average vehicles but huge in numbers.
hmm letās run this through shall we? jumbo has amazing frontal armor that has a cost of being terrible at anti tank and does have a frontal weak spot that 6/7 tanks should be able to go through frontally, 3N canāt but itās fast enough to rush to the side of it and ammo it. Panther can only be killed in the turret by 2/7 tanks in normandy, itās great at anti tank, good at anti infantry; so remind me whatās the broken tank here?oh iām not going to include inf. and aircraft into account since they donāt really care about tank armor, only other tanks care.
m10 is a piss poor counter to panther and you know it
never said anything about not removing jumbo 
oh also jumbo does have a counter before since the 2 fast tanks can rush to the side of the jumbo, note iām not saying flank; iām saying to rush, and at the point where jumboās weakspot becomes impossible to hit with gunner sights is usually when m72 stops being effective.
not really a good idea without doing something about the panther such ideas could be: removing the damn thing, or making it the unreliable POS it actually was and give it the poor steel armor.
Jumbo has impenetrable frontal armor, but side armor is also 76mm, where even p3 struggles to penetrate except some areas. Where as panther armor is just 45mm, which howitzer and stuart will be able to penetrate and as fast as puma. Moreover the reload time for panther is 7s, so does not shoot as often.
You can theoretically say that puma and p3 can rush but theory and practical are two different things. Reg puma, just one shot there goes the puma boom. P3 one shot 2 to 3 ppl dead. So driver needs to switch which slows the speed. Plus all tanks wont be alone, they will be surrounded by infantry / another tank which makes sure things like this doesnt happen unless in the forest. Piat is like another 76mm cannon(but with arc), which easily penetrates even p3 frontally. whereas strumpistol is just pure crap.
Actually poor armor for pantherā¦ Its 100mm & 80mm even at level 31 where as Jumbo its 152mm & 114mm (just WOW) just at level 20. Compare it with P4H, i literally starts laughing.
Thats why if we swap M10 & Jumbo, both M10 & p4H will be able to penetrate each other (although m10 has much better cannon), but atleast p4 will be able to penetrate. And for Jumbo & panther, since m10 is unlocked sooner, it just a matter who sees who first. OR, if atleast p4 has a better cannon to penetrate Jumbo (apart from shooting at 1X1 mm2), it will somewhat makes sense.
So removing panther puts axis at such a disadvantage that it is not even playable.
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except for cup and mg port and with german APHE it can and will be crippled.
no shit sherlock, itās a stubby 75mm anti infantry gun, itās not really meant to go for tanks but it can do it.
and here is the difference since you can go through but canāt really do any damage but the panther is good at turning the hull.
itās not theoretical, it is entirely possile, i would know this since iāve done it with the panzer 3N. also jumbo has to hit directly on target to actually do damage.
nope this is wrong as well case and point also sturm is a fucking modified flaregun.
youāre wrong the frontal glacis, thatās 80mm, can stop the 17 pounder while the 17 pounder is more effective at going through the turret if it doensāt hit the mantelet.
nope, panther would still have 100% advanage because of the gun different, because guess what M72 IS FUCKING SHIT, oh right i forgot most normandy maps are narrow sooooo yeah.
right because itās so small that the puma can hit it at 200m
but hey if the mg isnāt your thing you can always try the cup.
oh no how will the axis manage with only fg42s the horror, THE HORROR!!! but any changes or removing jumbo would also put the allies at a disadvantage since maps like the beaches arenāt favorable towards them iāve been on the axis team before panther was added and rolled the allies on d-day because they didnāt have any heavy armor
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oh if you are wondering what iām doing in the puma images; iām using gunner sights because more zoom
With noob tank crew / few players anything is possible lol. Although now there arent many playing as allies in normandy, but if the jumbo guy is good, he wont allow it. Plus the enemy infantry will be surrounding the tank, one piat & puma goes boom.
Yes strum has less arc than piat, but it wont penetrate any tankās front while Piat can. Reg sherman, if you hit at the box sometimes it cooks up the ammo & other times it wont & that is the case with any tank. I need to get it close to the tank & then shoot 2 to 3 times with strum that actually i would be better throwing just a c4. And reg Jumbo, it is extremely hard to hit Jumbo with strum (only on the mid pair of wheels below the track) where as piat can penetrate p4 anywhere on the side.
This is how we feel when we face jumbo. For jumbo it is impossible to hit turret. only that mg. & if the enemy team is newbie, we can rush but very difficult. (This is the case for Jumbo at level 20 itself while panther is only at level 31 ā (11 levels (~2 Million xp diff) ). Also Jumbo has 13mm mgā¦ (only allies have it)
You mean m10 ?, Actually 76mm kwk42 has considerably less penetrative power compared to 17pounder (17p is actually tigerās 88). M10 will be able to counter panther frontally. But as i told apart from mg & cup, no where you will be able to penetrate jumbo frontally with p4.
you are not in battlefield lol. Jumbo will also be shooting you. One shot puma boom.
Coming to p4, they will also be shooting at you lol. Not so easy as jumbo penetrates p4 not hard. There are considerable amount of spaces where crosshair is green while in Jumbo against p4. Plus back & side armor of p4 is really terrible, at 8mm & 30, even a 20mm cannon will penetrate from back. P4 is at a good disadvantage to Jumbo.
If p4 has good side & back armor & better gun to penetrate frontally, then it is a match for jumbo. Also note that jumbo also have an additional mg (M2hb)
I agree that fg should be under mg, but allies have good antitank capability as infantry (with piat & bazooka).
And I never said anything about removing jumbo kiddo. It is you that are crying to remove panther. I only said to swap to give better chance to axis to penetrate jumbo and give allies better chance to penetrate panther.
And according to you, Jumbo is a light armor ?
ironically enough infantry doesnāt really care about guarding tanks a whole, itās something iāve learnt while spending my time in tanks across all sides in all campaigns.
and this needs to be fixed since the sturm should be able to go through the side of jumbo since it has 80mm of pen.
talking about jumbo vs panther here, though the m10 doesnāt have the 17 pounder it has the 76m m7 which is much worse than both the 17p and the kwk42. also kwk42 is better performance than the kwk36. and i think m10 is using m79 AP since iāve been hit by one and it only damaged my breached.
oh right american AP doesnāt create shrapnel.
this is mostly wrong since the jumbo has to hit ammo to actually be a one shot
i actually would have wanted the panzerH4 to get track armor since that force jumbo to aim for weak spots in the hull.
green does not mean damage.
yeah, or if they donāt want to do that then give the allies BARa1 as their multiclass since both guns are statiscally similar.
i only want panther removed since itās most similar to pershing, hell i even used pershing as an example on why the panther shouldnāt be added. Tl;DR power creep.
nope was referring to stuarts
They have shown only lower hull, but there are many places to penetrate. When there is green cross hair, if p4 has full squad, atleast 1 - 2 dead. if you hit at the center. (driver + some random guys), On the other hand only mg for jumbo which will actually kill some ppl.
So if the p4 has only one or two spots, for jumbo to penetrate and increasing the side & rear armor, then it will be match for jumbo.
Infantry doesnt care about protecting tanks but they care about destroying enemy tanks, which basically is the same.
Actually I think Tiger is most similar to perishing. 90mm M3 is not a match for kwk 75mm. Its similar to flak 88. i.e. tigerās gun. I think if they have plans to add tiger, they will for sure add perishing or any better tank.
And it would be better if axis get a better antitank gun (i.e. like piat something or panzershrek with reduced AP.)
Interestingly panther is not op as long as Jumbo is there. If Jumbo is just removed Axis has good advantage but similarly if panther is removed, then allies have big advantage. (penetrating jumbo becomes very hard & m10 gun is better than 75mm kwk40. ) It can be removed if p4 has better armor on the sides & sloped armor on the front and a good gun to penetrate jumbo (apart from mg).
The only reason i was asking to swap m10 & jumbo is bcoz of the above reason. (one weak spot vs a big area)
And I think you din see Jumbo in beaches is bcoz the number of persons have been reduced. I can see that there are many bots. Bottom players will be mostly bots. It would help, if the bots are named with BOT_nameā¦ I see Jumbo in beaches sometimes, and actually when axis sees them, mostly they hide their tanks from jumboās LOS and start killing infantry. Thats what i have seen.
And I never wanted Axis to be OP nor allies to be OP as it diminishes the fun for both, one team keeps winning which removes fun while other keeps losing and they will also lose fun as at the EOD, all matters is whether we have fun, bcoz the video game motto is only for that.
i use pershing since both should be able to lol pen everything while being completely frontally immune to all existing tanks
Actually among other games i played like company of heroes, etcā¦ perishing is treated as heavy tank compared to tiger.
But with your case, then they could remove jumbo, put m10 inplace of jumbo, make p4 side & rear turret & hull armor more, and add perishing at level 31. That may balance, i think.
I think since Perishing is treated as heavy, devs added jumbo.
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Doesnāt it bother you that the difference in BR of these tanks is 0.7-1 (depending on the modification of the tiger)
Persing has a BR of 6.3, if you think a 0.7-1 BR difference is okay, then the Axis can use the M48A2 C (7.0) or Leopard I (7.3) as Persingās answer.
Or in the final tank of the campaign we will stick to the BR balance.
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they put the m10 that is 3.3 br against a panther that is 5.7, this br discussion is stupid.
this is not wt itās enlisted, tanks are used differently and perform differently
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that would sound nice but iām not for pershing being in the game, so maybe the churchill mk7 instead?
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I made it clear that the final two tanks must be equal.
The panther has a BR higher than the m10, just as the jumbo has a BR higher than the pz4.
The m10 is an opponent for the pz4, and the panther for the jumbo. So in the end, parity is established.
The last tanks of the sides should be good and equal.
If one will be higher than the other by 0.7-1 BR - this is nonsense
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I will resent by the tiger against the Pershing, just as I will resent by the King Tiger against the m4a3 76(w).
I hope to see a Tiger E vs m4a3 76(w).
They will be great tanks, the m4a3 will penetrate all German tanks head-on, the Tiger will be more perimeter protected but have noticeably less penetration than the panther.