Snipers are too inaccurate at long range

I went to Wiki and found what you’re talking about. This is their alleged source, it is sadly in French it seems but I got it translated with Google.

http://www.chevallet.eu/Documents/Lunettes%2098k.pdf

“Firing 5 cartridges in an 8 x 14 cm rectangle at 100m there must be at least 3 impacts in the rectangle. In addition, the 5 impacts are in a circle 12 cm in diameter. In this case, the rifle is declared suitable to become a sniper rifle.”

12cm is about 4.8", and 100m is 110yd. If we stick to 100yd for MOA, we’ll decrease 4.8" to 4.4". That’s 4.4 MOA, and it is deemed to be suitable to become a sniper rifle… yikes.

OH! That’s for “Fusil sans la lunette” which means “Rifle without a scope!” Oops, my bad! But wait, no, it says ‘sniper rifle.’ Hmm…

"Montage de la lunette sur le fusil " (Mounting the scope on the rifle)
“Tir de 5 cartouches dans un cercle de 7 cm de diamètre à 100 m. Les 5 impacts sont dans un cercle de 10,5 cm de diamètre.” (Firing of 5 cartridges in a circle of 7 cm in diameter at 100 m. The 5 impacts are in a circle 10.5 cm in diameter.)

7cm is about 2.8", bring that down to about 2.5" perhaps to bring it from 100m to 100yd, and that’s 2.5 MOA, which is the standard which the No.4 Lee Enfield goes for. So I guess… hmm… that’s confusing.

It also says that a 4x scope at 400m, the best marksmen would have an 80% chance of hitting while a normal soldier would have a 65% chance.

I have translated much in this source and I’m not finding anything that indicates that specific examples were chosen based on accuracy.

To my understanding from the article. It seems a normal Kar 98 just needed to have all 5 land within the 12 cm circle and 3 within the 8x14 cm rectangle. The scope equipped ones needed all 5 shots within a 7 cm circle

Found a different sight, some sort of ‘Military Wikia’ but it seems to have a whole lot of the same info as Wikipedia, but with different sources? Couldn’t find the French source of Wiki, but they did source this:

Senich, Peter R. (1982). The German sniper, 1914-1945 (1982 ed.). Paladin Press. ISBN 978-0-87364-223-1.

Anyone have access to, or wish to search/purchase, this book? They might be able to finalize whether Kar98ks were selected at random for mounting optics, or if specific ones were selected based on accuracy. As of right now, it seems to me that Wiki’s assertion that they were specifically chosen is unsourced, and as such, I am inclined to not take it as gospel.

That might be the case. “Mounting the scope on the rifle,” maybe a rather literal translation and that a more accurate one might be “Selecting a rifle on which to mount a scope.” Then, the answer would be "5 rounds in a 7cm circle at 100m, which is 2.5 MOA. Oh, no, wait, it might be that you are shooting AT a 7cm circle, but only 3 are required to hit, and 1-2 others are acceptable if they are still within a circle of 10.5cm. With these translations I think it leaves things up to interpretation to some degree…

Yeah its quite likely that that French source was already translated from German. Meaning we’re translating it again, and using google to do it so theres probably some differences :laughing:

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Still an enjoyable adventure. I’ve learned something regardless.

To get back on point, are the sniper rifles in the game too inaccurate? In my experience, no. If the target is still and I don’t botch the placement of the retical, I find it’s generally a guaranteed hit unless they’re perhaps mostly concealed and prone and it’s from a great distance thus I only have a small space in which I need to get the sights in order to ensure a hit. In particular on the D-Day Normandy landing map with a scoped M1903A1 (I think also maxed out, so also providing more damage) one match I did EXCEEDINGLY well. Sadly lost my radio operator at one point when I think my troops had stupidly moved from cover over to where I was shooting from because a point had been taken, leading to me fleeing my position in a panic while they get mowed down. I had ONE soldier left, so I was lucky because thanks to him, I would definitely not run out of ammo. At one quite fantastic location where there was a sandbag nest, I shot while mounted on the bottom row of sandbags, another row going across above me, so I shot between them. Until the final point, I was able to snipe and snipe and snipe while nobody even tried to hit me, that or they just didn’t notice me, and I kept hitting ‘tilde’ which is my key for commanding my squad, and had my guy come up behind me to give me 5 extra rounds once I had 2 or less remaining. By the end of the match I had over 60 kills as I recall, pretty sure they were mostly from sniping. It was a REALLY good match for me, and I’m very certain it was beyond 200m, who knows, maybe it was even 300m.

Whatever the case, I distinctly remember that nobody so much as shot at me. I had a field day, a field of Krauts, and I slew dozens of them with my scoped M1903A1 with my idiot AI squad mate running up to me from time to time to hand me five more .30-06. Due to the sandbag nest I was in, I guess the enemy never noticed his movement, which was quite handy. That barrel must have gotten hot enough to cook bacon on lol I was probably getting five more rounds from the bot every… I dunno… 15-25 seconds maybe? I didn’t time myself at all, insofar as quickly hitting ‘tilde’ and ‘2’ or whatever the number was to get him to give me ammo ASAP. Most targets were moving though, so not a good judge of accuracy in terms of elevation, only a judge of whether I’m leading the target efficiently, really. If the target was still, though, I’d just aim a little higher than normal and it’d be a basically guaranteed hit. Real satisfying to cover the target up with the retical to aim a little over their head, pull the trigger, and I get the notification of a headshot instant-kill haha if only I could adjust the sights for elevation like in Red Orchestra II, Rising Storm, and Rising Storm II: Vietnam.

I’d also like to make a small mention that sniping in and of itself, unless you’re REALLY damn good and you’re picking the enemy off quickly and consistently, ideally while they’re on point or getting to point, then sniping on its own isn’t of particularly great utility. A sniper whom is performing reconnaissance though, who are ACCURATELY marking enemy targets, especially tanks, now THAT is very useful. Particularly marking tanks, but accurate markers on enemy infantry is also very helpful. It helps air support in being more affective, it helps tanks to deal with enemy tanks (I always get excited when I’m in my ‘Jumbo’ and a marker pops up for an enemy tank, frankly it often feels like the Jumbo is OP, so often I’ve taken out the light German Recon tanks with the 8 or so rubber tires with just one direct-frontal shot of HE, don’t even need AT), and yeah if you can take out a number of the enemy then that’s good, especially if you take enemies off of machine guns which I tend to do frequently on D-Day; easy kills really!

It is very easy to criticize sniping as not helping in the grand scheme of things, and indeed in some cases, yeah, people who snipe can very easily contribute very little to the team, but if you can deliver effective reconnaissance on where the enemy are located, BIG help! Don’t forget to mark targets! So annoying when I feel like I’m the only one putting up markers, and I do so whether I’m a sniper or not, even got into doing it while using the tank. But yeah, ideally, even the whiz-bang super snipers out there who are great at leading moving targets and holding on still targets, are also marking where the enemy are at. It can be so very helpful, and I was marking the Hell out of the enemy on that epic match I had during D-Day. Would be nice to get points for marking targets that end up getting killed by other players, but then I fear it would be over-used to the point where people mark locations without knowing if enemy are truly there, just in case there MIGHT be people, or it’s a location where enemies OFTEN go but they might not be there at the moment, hoping for lucky and undeserved points, so I think that aspect is probably best left un-implemented.

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I think bullets are quite precise at long ranges, it’s the sights which are often not that good for long ranges. But it takes some time to master bolt action snipers, especially shooting moving targets. But it’s more fun the way it is now. I love using bolt-action sniper rifles.

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Make sure you standing still as moving or stopping after a long run can through off your aim. Also, crouching, laying down, and mounting a weapon drastically increase accuracy and reduce recoil. Im pretty sure the Lee Enfield is just less accurate than most other rifles anyway.

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this takes longer to read then play a full game of inavison

I snipe a lot and have found every single shot is different lol. I put it down to just plan luck . Nothing in this game is consistent especially aiming. Why do players not die at point blank even after 3 rounds. Why are snipers lit up like neon lights every time you get a kill when snipers use stealth. Only way to survive as a sniper is distance and then you struggle with inconsistent aiming and results.
As for your squad they are useless and just there to die, very rarely help you survive. Only good squad member is the Engineer. Wish people would use them more to defend points nothing worse than no ammo! In general I think the sights in Enlisted suck very hard to aim with, front sight just disappears into the background. I now have a permanent squint from trying to aim lol