Revert SMG recoil to Pre-Stalingrad levels

Suggestions
1

I did a deep dive into the true recoil with some submachine guns across the Soviet and German factions and realized that the PPSh-41 has more recoil than a German submachine guns and the AS-44 Model 5.
Not only that but German submachine guns are just so much better, mainly because they aren’t horizontally challenged like the Soviet submachine guns which require you to control them in 2 directions.

Here is an example (without recoil perks) of how I got these numbers if you’re confused:
Weapon: K-50M
Damage per shot: 6.5
Vertical recoil: 12
Horizontal recoil: 6
Rate of fire: 1300

To find the damage per second, we multiply the damage (6.5) by the rate of fire (1300) then divide by 60.
6.5 × 1300 = 8450 ÷ 60 = 140.83

To find the vertical recoil per second, we multiply the vertical recoil (12) by the rate of fire (1300) then divide by 60.
12 × 1300 = 15600 ÷ 60 = 260

To find the horizontal recoil per second, we multiply the horizontal recoil (6) by the rate of fire (1300) then divide by 60.
6 × 1300 = 7800 ÷ 60 = 130

To find the total recoil per second, add the vertical and horizontal recoil per second values together.
260 + 130 = 390

Now since we got Assault Rifles and Battle Rifles running around top tier, can we make Tier 4 and 5 submachine guns actually usable? The PPD-34\38, PPD-40, and PPSh-41 cant compete with the MP-40, Beretta M38A, MKb-42, and StG-44 because of its insane recoil which prevents it from fighting back at 100 meters.

“But WurFog it’s a submachine gun, it’s not supposed to be used at 100 meters”
Realistically these weapons can effectively fire and kill a man as far as the human eye can reasonably see. So why doesn’t the MP-40 and Beretta M38A have some kind of balance to prevent this engagement distance?

I hope this gets fixed.

Edit: Yep that’s right, due to hidden weapon stats not listed in the ingame menu, this entire presentation was a waste of 13 hours of time, someone get Quadro in here and get him to do this because I just can’t do it, I can’t take this no more man.

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2

Lol.
Sometimes you’d better try playing the game. Rather than trying to do pseudo math that doesn’t reflect reality.

And if your main factor in balancing assaulter weapons in Enlisted is their utility over 100m, you’re doing something wrong camper.

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3

BLASPHEMY! EVEN AFTER YOU SEE THE TRUTH WITH YOUR OWN EYES YOU STILL DENY IT!

The AS-44 Model 5 which has the same stats as an StG-44 has half the recoil of the PPSh-41, you are practicing heresy!

The Soviet ones (excluding the PPS-42) can’t fight at 100 meters like the German ones can, the PPSh-41 is the same battle rating as the Federov and AS-44 M5 yet has double the recoil and if you need to shoot someone 100 meters away then you are out of luck

I’m a Soviet main! I’ve gotten nothing but offensive matches this entire week and rushing towards the objective with a PPSh-41 has almost cost my team a couple of matches because I need to be within 50 meters to accurately kill with the PPSh-41. The AS-44 M5 and Federov on the other hand I can actually kill someone on full auto at 100 meters because they have nearly half the recoil of the PPSh-41 and kills in 1-3 shots instead of 6-7

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Be prepared for the German mains to come out in force attempting to deny this despite being shown hard proof, I’ve tried explaining this to some before, but they’ll just outright deny it.

I’ve noticed this issue is also compounded with the fact that German SMGs have much better dispersion than Soviet SMGs, too. Though I cannot for the life of me understand why the boxmag PPSH-41 has .21 dispersion, unless this is a typo. Also 100 meters/yards is usually considered to be about the max effective range of an SMG, but considering the fact that some Soviet SMGs struggle at even 50M or less is a little bit of a pain considering the Germans get about 4-5 assault rifles.

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5

It’s already started.

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6

Your rally points should be exactly 50m away from the spawn, same goes for APC. So I honestly don’t see any problem.

And you can always change full auto mode to semi mode to counter high fire rate :PP

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I’ll assume that you worded it poorly due to language barrier… Because that way, it sounds like you’re unhappy because you ALMOST lost a pair of matches in a whole week…

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8

For defense yes but for offense that’s usualy a bad idea since the enemies tend to search for rally points in that range, I build mine around 65 meters away in better locations because at 50 meters the enemies often hear the rally morse code from the point and go destroy it.

This is probably bait but, the PPSh-41 requires 6-7 shots to kill a man 100 meters away, if your opponent is armed with anything other than a knife or pistol, you’re dead.

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Is it because of the missing comma?

10

I don’t knew know what Pre-stalingrad means. And what you even suggests.
But from my experiences PPSh is very solid weapon. It’s main issue is just wasting too much ammo inefficiently.
But I definitely do need remember I was ever in need to snipe enemy that’s 100m away with my smg. It would be extremely ineffective with basically any smg. Recoil doesn’t really matter.
You’ll only reveal your position to the enemy, as you have to shoot for quite a long time.
Like you said, you need a lot of hits at that range. That’s gonna take a while.
Not mentioning you are just wasting ammo.

I really don’t think this is somewhat relevant factor for smgs:

And it’s obvious that ARs should be more effective on longer range. That’s literally the whole point of them.

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11

Check the dispersion bro, it’s not fair

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12

Before the Stalingrad merge SMGs had half the recoil that they currently have.

Compared to the Federov Avtomat, AS-44 M5, RD-44, and AVT-40 it’s completely useless since it can’t be used as a universal weapon. The Federov which has less recoil will 1 shot down someone at 100 meters and insta kills at close range.

Ammo crates fix that if your defending, if you’re on the offensive then your doomed.

Try it with the Beretta M38A and you’ll be shocked.

The Beretta M38A kills very quickly at 100 meters due to its low recoil, if you shoot first you’ll win.

With the Beretta, all the hits add up quickly, with the PPSh-41 getting a hit is hard.

Ah yes the intermediate cartridge, more powerful than a pistol, less powerful than a rifle… why does the assault rifle have less recoil than the submachine gun?

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The dispersion has no outright negative effect on performance with the Beretta M38A at 100 meters.

14

Good to know. I don’t think smgs needs less recoil. It’s already pretty much non existing with right perks.

That’s not good argumentation for adding yet another complete universal weapon.
There’s no reason for why should smgs be effective on longer distances.

You don’t need to snipe with smg enemy that’s 100m away if you’re defender.

Why? It kills enemy that’s 100m away with only 2 bullets? If not, my point still stands.

As you have said yourself, higher fire rate makes it more uncontrollable.
Ppsh still has pretty low recoil. Just don’t use it on 100m+. It is not effective. And not because of recoil.

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15

I am telling you, it does. Since you are not firing as fast as other guns, every shot counts. Any shot that is missing the torso and head has a negative effect, especially when you are shooting a player who has a laser (low dispersion) gun if he aims it right.

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16

Respectfully sir, the 200m sight adjuster disagrees.

17

Obv, artificial balance game stats do not reflect reality. Same goes for vehicles in this game.

I really do not understand why do you 200m adjuster irl is somewhat relevant argument in this discussion.

18

Any great gun’s kryptonite

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19

The PPD-34\38, PPD-40, and PPSh-41 suffer from insane horizontal recoil no matter what perks you have.

100 meters is not a long distance, it would still have a slower Time To Kill than the assault rifles at the distance so reverting the recoil wouldn’t allow it to outgun an StG-44

I should be able to tho, it’d be realistic.

Not in 2 bullets, but definitely less than 2 seconds

This is actually not true, a higher fire rate usualy leads to less recoil 800+

Then there’s no reason I should be using it when the Federov and AS-44 M5 do the job 10x better.

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That’s not what I have experienced. But as I have said. I don’t remember a single time I was shooting with my smg a target that’s 100m away.

It is very long distance in this game. Some spawns are 100m away from objective.

Not true. Vehicle crews cna equip smgs but not ARs. So there’s still place for ppsh.

Or just accept the fact you’ll not be using meta stuff.