No the Panther is even worse off when angled
Allied players are bitching because only the M8 (at great risk) and M10 (also at horribly great risk) can pen the Panther’s turret frontally
While the Panther can lolpen them anywhere at pretty much any possible range in game
This wasn’t the case with the Jumbo when every German tank sans the 3N could pen the MG port or just sit there and tank the shitty AP the Jumbo gurgles out
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Apparently the 3N could also pen the mg port at close distances but it was still mobile enough to get to the side 
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I understand that much, but I still don’t find it convincing enough. Mainly because if the Jumbo can hide it’s MG port, there’s nothing most german tanks can do to it at that point. Even thought it does have bad AP, if it turns into a staring competition the Jumbo is at an advantage because for example, a Pz IV’s turret front can still be penetrated every once in a while, while the Jumbo’s turret is just never going to take any damage. Meanwhile the Jumbo could just decide to farm infantry instead which it is really good at. Imo the real problem is with the pairings. For example if the M10 was at the same level as the Pz IV H people wouldn’t have had the Jumbo problem, and if the Jumbo and the Panther had an opposing counterpart people were satisfied with there’d have never been a problem.
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I wouldnt say remove the M8. Have them both unlocked, the sherman and the M8 so a player could chose
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Nah, M8 is fine, just difficult to use on the beach maps. It’s a niche vehicle that needs to be played in a very specific way, but so will the Stug. The HEAT from both will also make them able to fight any tank, even the highest level ones…
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There’s really no hard cover for the Jumbo to hide his MG port in Enlisted that isn’t a building that blocks an entire hemisphere he can look
Jumbo should have just come as the 76 Jumbo or some shit with the Tiger 1 being the counterpart
Jumbo can punch Tiger
Tiger can punch Jumbo
Absolutely zero issue and it opens up things like the Panther and other heavy American shit later on
Idk wtf they were thinking with the PzIV H being the Jumbo’s opposite
Panther situation is Jumbo but with a good gun and better armor
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Exactly. This is why I actually really enjoy this whole thing, because back then the Allies said “Jumbo is fine, Axis mains cry” and now the same people have the same issue with the Panther as Axis players did with the Jumbo. I really do hope eventually DF will fix this (I like playing both sides so I’d be happy if they could balance things well), but for now I’ll just enjoy the irony of this situation. Though this doesn’t mean I’ll ever accept how the gray zone currently works lol.
It’s silly but right now, the best tank experience I have… is in Berlin of all places. They tweaked it a bit so the pz4 seem to not explode immediately and good t34 drivers can take out panthers without too much difficulty… it’s fun here because it’s balanced. The next tanks not yet implemented (Is1 and tiger1) even seem pre balanced vs each others…
Why didn’t they do something like this in Normandy? The maps are amazing for tank play in Normandy (Exept dday. Dday really sucks) but the tank balance is all over the place… 
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Yea thats why Berlin is good with balance. Even the best tanks will be able to be not too hardly killed by starters
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yes i agree that it needs a rebalance but why are you adding tanks that did not where not in normandy?
M3 lee was already obsolete by the invasion of Sicily in 43 and there werent any in normandy. and the hetzer started being used late in 44 maybe late november if not later… we already have caffee, jumbo and panzer iv J with ostketen, why keep ruining the immersion? many players play this instead of CoD because it has a balance of game play and realisim.
and m8 in the right hand can one shot a PZ IV so its far from useless…
as for balance in my opinion
M4a2 vs STUG (both most armoured vehicles in service so should be the easier to unlock)
then
M4 with 105 vs Panzer IV j
M4 76 vs Panzer H
then since US did not have any heavy armour to counter panther they could put hellcats, highly mobile and with WT physics, no armour best armour haha
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if they gave the M8 scot & M10 gmc Commander the ability to to take cover rather then been exposed all the time those vehicles would be far more playable
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They put the STUG in the premium squad so its unlikely to see it as an unlock.
Stug should replace the hetzer then but the lee, its like what do you put as the first tank that wouldnt be useless? M8?
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Hetzer didn’t see the West till Arnhem.
A non premium StuG III would be a better fit IMO.
Scott is fine, its HE is excellent, and deadly. Just gotta play it like mobile artillery instead of breakthrough.
The other issue is the unlocks right now in Normandy.
Jumbo is readily available before its supposed counter , the Panther A is. That creates some disparity.
Should have been the Easy 8 so at least the PZ4 has a better shot at it.
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yeah most likely 
as i said in my opinion first unlock should be the most used armoured vehicles by both sides so m4 and stug and they should be unlocked at rank 10
Hmm, what about wrecks of other destroyed tanks? Theoretically Jumbo can hide his hull behind them. I haven’t tried to Pen them behind those, but if i remember correctly, you don’t get any color for aim marker through those.
His shots will get eaten by their completely fucked hitbox so its a no go
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Or just keep exactly what we have now but replace the M10 with the Jumbo, and put the M4a3 76mm where the Jumbo is. 76mm can fight a panther at a disadvantage, and when you rank up you get the choice between a bigger gun (M4a3 76mm) or the Jumbo with more armor and harder to take down.
Axis should have the PZ4 J replaced with something else, idk what though. I’d say the STUG but obviously that wont work. Honestly a Tiger vs the 76mm isn’t that bad since the 76mm can pen the front of a Tiger, but I imagine people would flip their shit if it was a Tiger vs a Sherman.
there would also be the issue that a tiger would be completely immune to the 37mm of stuart but tis the nature of power creep
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Keeping it the same is not that good. Most tanks have no chance of killing panther/jumbo. So if you havent payed up its your fault.
Look at berlin as the example. The starter tanks can and will be able to kill any tank on the battlefield
Berlin is a terrible example of tanks balance, theres a grand total of 3 tanks that are worth using, and two of them are T34-85’s.
Not every tank needs to be able to fight every other tank, that’s simply impossible to do while retaining an interesting variety of vehicles. There just needs to be trade offs and advantages to each vehicle. Do you want to be able to engage the big German tanks like the Panther/Tiger? You need to bring a 76mm Sherman, and you lose out on armor. Do you want to have more armor and be an assault tank thats more resistant to hand held AT? Bring the Jumbo, but you’re going to struggle vs big tanks like the Tiger/Panther.