New Meta: Q&A

Huh?
Literally wiki: The first combat use of the Tiger II was by the 1st Company of the 503rd Heavy Panzer Battalion (s.H.Pz.Abt . 503) during the Battle of Normandy, opposing Operation Atlantic between Troarn and Demouville on 18 July 1944.

Tiger II didn’t exist when Stalingrad happened.

I don’t want 10% of my games to be BS.
Just skip me in the queue.
What’s the problem with that?

Those guys also don’t care about the Eastern Front and put Tigers with STGs to Stalingrad.

And I will not play IS-2 vs Tiger II at Stalingrad, never.
So, again, why force me to eat poop if the MM can just skip me and I’ll wait for a Berlin map that will eventually come up?

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It’s not rocket science to find a sweetspot in each campaigh where both sides are as equal as they can be and not go into insanity like sniper (lol) MKB (lol x2) in Moscow.

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(I am not refuating you, just some personal idea)

AVT-40 is sequelae of failed balance of Stalingrad campaign, Federov is sequelae of forcibly introduce counterpart of MP43 (while they completely forgot balancing of assault weapons in Normandy campaign), they both share the problem of too controllable compare to reality due to a hidden stats “recoil control multiplier” being inconsistent with other weapons in the game. After campaign balancing is no linger required, they should be fixed.

Maybe not, it looks like the best time for Enlisted to attract players from HLL now, because that game is introducing some less realistic movement, also I am not quite sure but as I remember there is IS-1 in Kursk or Stalingrad.

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this is a nice answer.

mkb42 existed when stalingrad happened.

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You’re still missing the point. Tiger II didn’t exist yet in Stalingrad, the Jumbo had barely existed for a month before D-Day and did not see action during the battle. So it’s no different. Neither vehicle was there.

And again, why is the Tiger II in Stalingrad a problem but none of the other inaccuracies currently in the game are?

The problem is that is extremely irrational.

Like seriously, 90% of your games would be as historical as Enlisted can get. You’re worried about the 10%? Just quit at that point if it’s that big of a deal. You’re fine with waiting 20+ minutes for one match, so what difference does it make?

And as I said, the more players present, the more effective the soft rule becomes. That 10% figure will drop lower and lower.

Well, then you’re kinda SOL then. Enlisted isn’t going to get any more accurate, at least for the time being.

Because, as explained numerous times, you won’t have to be skipped.

There is no evidence that there was or was not an MKB42 in Stalingrad, but it would be more fun to have one anyway.
I think military games should be based on historical facts, but allow for fiction. After all, a player can fail to land on D-Day depending on his choices. It is fictional history.

So, I hope you don’t take what I’m about to say too seriously, but here’s my silly idea.
If matchmakers are able to send players to the appropriate “timeline” they want, then by all means try to add a pre-WW2 or post-WW2 timeline.
And in some cases, I personally think it would be fun to create an if timeline where WW2 did not end in 1945. In that timeline, we could see a fictional Tiger III, or fictional evolutions of weapons that existed in WW2.

Well, DarkFlow’s priority would be to perfect the current game, so such a ridiculous idea would be years away, if ever, from being realized…
I would love to see IF the US and Japanese forces fight in Tokyo.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the new matchmaking system.

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That’s a good point. I was just hoping that they weren’t arguing that the AS44 was pay to win, because it objectively isn’t. The Soviets have access to multiple better weapons.

The problem with the AS, if any, is that it gives brand new players the ability to skip the line, so to speak, and have a competitive advantage against mid and late game players.

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I would suggest this is a good idea for events, people will love trying something fun and creative, like the titan rise and moon fight.

Also maybe a good idea to add a separate queue of “sandbox and special mission” for them.

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Exactly, and this is what Enlisted is. I don’t see the point in being so uptight about HA when this game just… isn’t. There’s not much else I can say.

As long as each faction is in the correct time period, and all weapons are from the WW2 era or prior, I could care less. It’s a video game. At the end of the day, I’m here to have fun.

This would be a cool event, but I’d rather not have in the general matchmaking personally since it’s not a real setting.

– proceeds to ignore this. Nice debating, dude.

I already said I don’t mind at all if Jumbo gets removed from Normandy. I would support this move.
Let’s limit Tiger use in Stalingrad and Jumbo use in Normandy, sure.

All of them are a problem.
Where do you see me defending any of the BS in the game?

How is the game benefitting from putting me in games fast and see me quit fast over letting me wait and stay to play?


It didn’t exist as a nomenclature weapon adopted for serial production and sent to the front.
That’s again the same argument as IS-3 vs Maus in Berlin because both technically existed in May 1945, except it’s clear that it would be BS.


Lack of evidence is already evidence in itself.
The only real evidence we have is that the first batch was approved to be produced and sent to Russia after Stalingrad. And the first Soviet captures of MKB happened after Stalingrad.

Let’s do some deduction here – if the German army at Stalingrad had MKBs, and the German army at Stalingrad surrended, where did all the MKBs disappear?

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You’re right, that’s my mistake.

But in the spirit of fairness, I’ll remind you that you blatantly misquoted my stance on the Moroccan squad and didn’t address it.

Then say that. You’ve only really talked about the Tiger II situation and ignored the hundreds of other inaccuracies in the game, present and future.

Then what is your point? Should every inaccuracy in this game be fixed? Should the experimental Japanese arsenal, German planes, FG-equipped Volkssturm, literally every other discrepancy, be fixed?

If the answer is yes, how do you balance the game? How do you make it fun? In this case, Pacific Axis should get stomped (not the case) Normandy Axis should get stomped (not the case) Berlin Allies should get stomped (not the ca- well, actually…).

Read this again, please.

To conclude as such is to show yourself that your claim is now your wishful thinking that ignores it’s historical and scholarly possibilities.

And as I have said many times, this game is based on history but allows for numerous fictions, so trying to convince me with “historical accuracy” in the first place is a pointless effort. I no longer feel any interest in that and it is not the axis of the debate.
It is also only one theory you personally believe in among many theories that you are trying to pivot your argument on.

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I didn’t misquote it. I said that whoever likes the “whatever” approach to WW2, can have instant matchmaking.
For me Moroccans in the Pacific is the same blapshemy level as Tiger II in Stalingrad.
As I wrote in another thread, I’ve been to Volgograd, I visited all the sights and museums, I went to the Tractor Factory. It’s something I have emotional connection with.

Hopefully yes.
Or at least mitigated to the point where the errors are tolerable. E.g. FG-42 was used in Berlin so it’s not a crime against humanity if Volkssturm npc holds it.
But stuff like Tiger II vs RPD in Stalingrad just defeats the purpose of creating a digital Stalingrad for me.

German planes in Normandy are needed to balance out American ones (and the Germans didn’t exactly have 0 planes afaik).
Though for all I care both Normandy air forces can be removed, if you wish.

By balancing the equipment that is reasonably appropriate.
Very roughly - cut every campaign by half where it doesn’t get into mad high tiers, and we have a decent balance with both teams at level ~15.

To each their own but for me fun is immersive Mosins at Stalingrad against Germans with K98s where everything around me feels like what I’ve read, heard and seen about Stalingrad. I really don’t need any fancy experimental gold plated 25-round burst fire semi-auto to have fun.

First of all, you don’t know what the ratio is gonna be. Nobody knows.

I’ll get punished for quitting games I explicitly asked the game not to put me into.


I respectfully invite you to present ONE evidence of any MKBs ever being used in Russia before Spring of 1943.
That’s the theory I’ll believe.

Semantic gymnastics is an equally pointless effort if you’re trying to force your “allow for numerous fictions” concept on me.

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The fact is that the game is fiction and I am not forcing you to do anything.
And it is becoming a fact that your arguments are missing the point of the discussion and that you are now just being a pain in the ass.

I’m impartial to the mkb, but the tiger 1 and mg42 debuted in Africa so I don’t see the issue there

You did. You said I believed in something I explicitly said I did not. That is called misquoting. Here it is:

I said I could suspend my disbelief with a Tiger II in Stalingrad, because it is a WW2-era German tank that while not correct for the exact time period, is correct for the era and faction.

The same is NOT true for the Moroccan March, because while the dates may line up, the March was not in the Pacific.

They’re both not ideal, but Moroccans in the Pacific is far less believable.

I understand that, I truly do. My great grandfather was an 101st Airborne paratrooper present throughout Europe, and his brother was a flametrooper in the Pacific. I’ve been to Omaha and Utah Beach, Ver-sur-Mer, Caen, and Carentan.

While an emotional connection matters, it’s not very relevant for video games. Historical films should absolutely be accurate, but that’s a different issue.

So, even though I have an emotional connection to the Normandy landings, I’m not interested in nitpicking historical details in an ahistorical game. I suspend my disbelief with things such as the Jumbo, M2 Carbines, or the laughable representation of the D-Day map.

Fair enough, but I still consider it being equipped to 9-man squads complete BS if we’re talking about accuracy.

I’m aware. The point was that if we are striving for complete accuracy, then the Germans should kiss their precious attacker planes goodbye. Of course they still had planes, but they weren’t strafing the ground with Ju188s every five minutes. The Allied air supremacy would not have allowed such a thing to happen.

Balancing equipment results in the loss of a fair amount of accuracy.

Then equip gear in your load out that would be appropriate for Stalingrad, and you’re good to go.

I didn’t think I needed to explain that it was a hypothetical number. But I digress.

You have some traction here. I am skeptical of punishing deserters because people quit for a variety of reasons.

The problem with desertion is when people do it because they might lose. It’s fine if you’re a newbie getting matched with sweaty veterans. By all means quit.

But to those who do it to preserve your win rate or can’t exploit new players, then kindly piss off. Usually when I brave the horror that is Pacific Allies and actually capture the first point, all the veterans quit and we get a free win.

The game already has numerous fictions.

Thank you for very fruitful discussion.

I am deeply sorry that my suggestion for the game to allow me to wait longer for a more enjoyable experience has caused you so much lower back pain. /s

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This is one of the classic examples of “the west” thinking they were the main focus of German power in WW2.
In fact, Tiger I debuted near Leningrad, and North Africa only ever saw ~30 Tigers max (out of ~1350).

Dude you are literally misquoting me rn by dropping the IF from my quote

I don’t see why one can hurt the other.

While German planes are needed in Normandy to balance out American air force, I don’t see how something like M2 Carbine or Jumbo are so desperately needed at D-Day (if we can similarly limit the Germans off their similar stuff with BRs – I’d rather do that)

But once I want to use Tiger II I must suffer the probability of going to Stalingrad with it and having to quit and be punished? I don’t see how me waiting longer is a worse scenario.

Except we are not. At least I am not.
I am not asking for a milsim where you need to drink water, take rations and have your buttons set up exactly like in 1942.

I am simply advocating for a) not adding any more unneseccary BS to the game; b) being able to personally wait longer for a more enjoyable experience.

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I kind of agree with both sides.

I also don’t want BS matches but I agree that the border of what is and what isn’t BS is very hard to establish.

I’d say that as long as average person mildly interested in ww2 doesn’t have wtf moment (like volkssturm with fg42) it’s ok to have the thing.

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