Nerf Russians little bit

[Kaisershlacht]

you are right man

[ghostofishmael]

are you okay? You realize this is a game right?

[Winter_Storm]

i wouldn’t count on that, since ghost is quite good

[ghostofishmael]

Thanks Ricky!

[Winter_Storm]

no problem daddy uwu

[ghostofishmael]

DM me your discord so we can squad up one of these days. Sick of playing atlas by myself.

[Winter_Storm]

ok

[Kanortex]

Get a grip you delusional little trout.

You sound like your K/D is in the negatives even in Squad.

I would push your face so hard in the dirt the snow in Moscow would come out as filtered, drinkable water out of your behind for your braindead comrades to drink from.

[Knyaz_Iaroslav]

Normal Germany people not full nazy,but you need to Nuremberg xd

[Raserenus]

@23864415

Firstly, the implementation of historically accurate equipment be they small arms or vehicles.
Secondly, the adaptation of these to a “game” so that there is a relative parity of both sides - something that most WWII FPS games struggle because there are so many variables to consider.

But the equipment isn’t historically accurate?
Both sides are using equipment that had less then 100 units in the actual campaign.
Hell the T-28 is still inaccurate since every T-28 that survived the winter war was up armored and the one we have in game is not.
Then on Normandy we don’t have the basic US rifle as the Garand, and we have the FG-42 as a battle rifle and not an LMG.

@23864415

So first and foremost, there are too many SMGs and Automatics, for what was historically available, and some of the squad options need a little adjustment as well. The first of these is the MG squad which provides for 3 LMGs or the premium 4 man LMG squad - these are an issue and are ahistorical. Most squads had one and at most 2 LMGs as was the case for the German Panzer Grenadiers which appear post the 1942 re-org. So that should be adjusted sooner rather than later.

The Germans and Americans have too many SMGs for sure, the USSR ran actual full SMG squad formations. The Germans were more reliant on LMGs and the US was more reliant on Semi Auto rifles.

@23864415

The Soviet tanks are accurate for the period, the German ones are not initially, but end up with the right models in the end. It’s a point of friction with Campaign accuracy, the Germans should perhaps start with the PzII, then have the Pz35t (since the 38t is premium) and then move to the PzIII F and PzIV as available in game and ending with the PzIII J as they currently have.

Moscow tanks are crazy inaccurate. There were only around 50 T-50s made, and under 100 T-28s survived to fight in the battle of Moscow, the majority of them were lost in the winterwar or in the opening days of Barbarossa, Panzer 3 B had 10 units produced and E was around 100 Units.

@23864415

The Soviet aircraft for the period are accurate including the IL-2, the German line up is similarly biased as the tanks by including obsolete vehicles at the beginning of the progression, but it evens out after level 7 when the Germans get their Stukas.

The biggest problem with Soviet aircraft are the attackers have stupidly nerfed load outs compared to what the Germans get. Also the IL-2 is using Incindiary ammo instead of AP or Fragmentation which it would be using for ground attacking.

@23864415

The issue with the T-34 and KV-1 variants as well as potentially some of the others like the SMK or T-35 might be with balancing, since it would require an adaptation of the 88mm in some form (either a special squad or build option for the engineers) for the Germans to deal with them effectively, although the 50mm available in game should also be effective once they tune up the ballistic and damage models.

The Germans already have the perfect answers to these, mainly they have det packs, which hitting under armor or top armor will destroy them with ease, and the 250kg Stuka bombs which will also demolish them.

If Germans are going to get the best attacker loadout then might as well give them a target that requires it instead of letting them bomb soft targets with stupidly big bombs.

[zaynfs]

@40856541

The biggest problem with Soviet aircraft are the attackers have stupidly nerfed load outs

IL-2 is better than the Stuka in everything else. The IL-2 loadout has been just as effective since the HE buff.

@40856541

mainly they have det packs

Everyone have detpacks and it has to be tossed perfectly on to the engine deck for a kill on KVs. Why should one faction be put in that sort of disadvantage? Especially when Axis teams are mostly just filled with bots now. It will only result in whatever few players are left in the campaign moving elsewhere.

[Raserenus]

@70242574

IL-2 is better than the Stuka in everything else. The IL-2 loadout has been just as effective since the HE buff.

Not really, 250kg bombs are hideously strong, especially when you get two of them.

@70242574

Everyone have detpacks and it has to be tossed perfectly on to the engine deck for a kill on KVs. Why should one faction be put in that sort of disadvantage? Especially when Axis teams are mostly just filled with bots now. It will only result in whatever few players are left in the campaign moving elsewhere.

They don’t underside armor is properly modeled so if you throw a det pack under it it will likely kill it.
And the Soviets played with as much of a disadvantage in regards to attacker planes, ground units have a super hard time dealing with air, AAA has a very low traverse for the speeds planes fly at beyond biplanes.
And one 250kg bomb can kill everything on a point easily.
The difference would be the bomber can deal with the tank but the tank can’t deal with the bomber still keeping an advantage on the axis side in that regard.

Hell in the Berlin test I never had trouble killing T-34s with the det packs, I doubt the KV would be that much more difficult. Infact satchel charges are how German infantry actually dealt with KV-1s.

[zaynfs]

@40856541

especially when you get two of them.

There is only one. The rest is 50s. BF110 gets 2x250 but is not as accurate as the Stuka.

@40856541

And the Soviets played with as much of a disadvantage in regards to attacker planes,

How exactly are Soviet planes disadvantaged. All Soviet are well rounded and can be used for both dogfighting and killing infantry. German planes are dead the moment someone sees it. Coupled with the Soviet planes damage model being a buggy mess, I don’t even understand what sort of advantage you see for Axis. It’s mostly on par if not for the buggy damage model.

@40856541

ground units have a super hard time dealing with air

Which is why Soviets get the planes that are great for aerial combat. Now think of Axis being in the same situation. The only hope is the Soviet planes crashing on their own.

@40856541

And one 250kg bomb can kill everything on a point easily.

7x50KG bombs plus a few rockets can do the same or even more the damage.

@40856541

The difference would be the bomber can deal with the tank but the tank can’t deal with the bomber still keeping an advantage on the axis side in that regard.

What kind of crap is that!?
What about tanks dealing with tanks? Every Soviet can deal with the German tank but the Germans can’t do the same?
And all Soviet planes can shoot German planes down but German planes can’t do the same even if they empty their whole load?

Unless a match making system happens, I don’t see the heavy tanks coming to Moscow. Even of that happens, I still doubt it can be balanced because there is no players on the Axis side.

[TUSUPOLISI69]

Which is why equipment should be balanced by the same category.
Its absolutely idiotic idea that faction A has twice better equipment in certain category and absolutely useless piece of shit in another to compensate.
There can be asymmetrical balance without things being twice better or worse.

[Raserenus]

@70242574

What about tanks dealing with tanks? Every Soviet can deal with the German tank but the Germans can’t do the same?

T-28 fragmentation rounds have like 38 mm of Pen, they have no AP so no not every Soviet tank can deal with every German Tank.

@70242574

7x50KG bombs plus a few rockets can do the same or even more the damage.

50kg have a very hard time damaging tanks.

@70242574

Which is why Soviets get the planes that are great for aerial combat. Now think of Axis being in the same situation. The only hope is the Soviet planes crashing on their own.

Not even close, a 109 can fly circles around the soviet attacker planes, they handle like barns.

@70242574

7x50KG bombs plus a few rockets can do the same or even more the damage.

@70242574

There is only one. The rest is 50s.

So it is more effective because it has both 250kg and 50kg then?
Make up your mind on how effective they are.

[zaynfs]

@40856541

50kg have a very hard time damaging tanks.

Not since the HE buff. Same goes for rockets.

@40856541

Not even close, a 109 can fly circles around the soviet attacker planes

BF109 is a fighter plane. I would be more worried if it wasn’t easy to fly.
Serves a different role. A role that IL-2 can do quite well while not suffering in anti infantry capabilities. And somehow Axis planes have the advantage hahahaha

@40856541

So it is more effective because it has both 250kg and 50kg then?

It has already been established that German plane load outs are better. But saying that Soviet planes are not capable of wiping out the map is absurd. German planes suffer in their aerial combat capabilities as a balance measure. And also has been getting speed nerfed alongside the resupply point being moved further away.

@40856541

T-28 fragmentation rounds have like 38 mm of Pen, they have no AP so no not every Soviet tank can deal with every German Tank.

Which tank in the current Moscow campaign does the T-28 have trouble dealing with?
While the T-34 and KVs will be completely immune to any German the devs can possible conjure.
Devs already said that KVs are not coming due to balancing issues. Even if they changed their mind, I’m pretty sure it’s not getting added until the match making system is up and running.

[Raf1307]

We’re actually in agreement on most of your points, it just so happened that this is more of a compromise post. I’ve addressed many of the issues you raise in other threads, so I’ll summarize here:

@40856541

But the equipment isn’t historically accurate?
Both sides are using equipment that had less then 100 units in the actual campaign.
Hell the T-28 is still inaccurate since every T-28 that survived the winter war was up armored and the one we have in game is not.
Then on Normandy we don’t have the basic US rifle as the Garand, and we have the FG-42 as a battle rifle and not an LMG.

From a “Moscow Campaign” as part of Barbarossa the T-28 was around in several variants not all were upgraded to the E version, nevertheless this is still the right tank and aside from some minor discrepancies its performance is close enough. In contrast neither of the early German tanks took part in Barbarossa having been rendered obsolescent a year and a half earlier.
I didn’t comment on Normandy - that one is well and truly historically broken.

@40856541

Moscow tanks are crazy inaccurate. There were only around 50 T-50s made, and under 100 T-28s survived to fight in the battle of Moscow, the majority of them were lost in the winterwar or in the opening days of Barbarossa, Panzer 3 B had 10 units produced and E was around 100 Units.

This is just circling back on your previous comment, so previous comments stand. There was a separate thread that mentioned that my recommendation for the 1st German tank should remain as the PzII (all be it with rectified ammo - for gods sake all they have to do is cut and paste from WT), The second option should be the Pz35t since the 38t is premium, and the rest are good enough. I also wrote in a separate thread that the T-50 should be removed because there were none in this Theater, the small run you refer to was deployed on the Leningrad front, where it failed to achieve anything and was returned to the drawing board to re-emerge as the T-70 later on. The soviets should consider the T-34 early with the same L-11 gun as the T-28. Moreover, the ballistics should be fixed to at least WT standard where the German 50mm are sufficiently effective vs any armour at the Enlisted ranges (100 - 300m typically)

@40856541

The biggest problem with Soviet aircraft are the attackers have stupidly nerfed load outs compared to what the Germans get. Also the IL-2 is using Incindiary ammo instead of AP or Fragmentation which it would be using for ground attacking.

Indeed, both sides should get a choice of load out. If ppl want to use rockets and those were available then the plane should have that choice. I don’t recall rockets being too prevalent at the start of the war though so this might be yet another historical aberration. I not sure though, but it would certainly be simpler if both sides aircraft were just equipped with the bombs they historically did have.
Furthermore, I made the above statement in reference to the historical plane availability rather than their load outs, where once again the early German plane is a Spanish Civil war representative and reflects a disappointing lack of imagination / historiography on the devs part - there are many models of the Bf109 that fit the “Moscow Campaign” and which could be historically built out.