pretty much the first thing I said.
^ Also, note the range of .30carbine.
While pretty much anyother source gives it far less than 300m effective range.
This is exactly what I was referring with murrican neckbeards, trying to push the M2 as assault rifle regardless its not.
And this is exactly what for I was referring with pushy murrican neckbeards, not you.
Unless you are responsible for this.
wow mericans decide what an assault rifle is,
next decleration what qualifies as a genius, sexy, rich, happy and free
nough joking aside merrica isn’t heaven and mericans are not angels
but if the hyde44 is not an ar its not a, carbine, not a rifle, not a smg, not a lmg, not a hmg, not a battle rifle, not a dmr, not a sniper rifle, not a pistol carbine, not a shotgun, not a flame thrower, not an anti tank rifle, not a revolver, not a mmg, not a saw, not a anti material rifle, not a grenade launcher, not a cannon, not a pdw, not a musket, not a muskatoon, not a blunderbus, not a dragoon, not a derringer, not a gatling gun ect ect ect.
it could be a light rifle which is not a carbine ect ect ect.
Well its US army? definition.
again it was part of the light rifle program
that’s like calling a lmg an assault rifle based on nothing more than because someone called it that
outside a handful of anomalies
a carbine meant one of two things
primarily taking a rifle of full caliber and shortening it, or a long arm that shot pistol caliber
yes the M1 M2 SKS, and vetterli but outside that there are dozens of example of rifles cut down to make carbines, a smaller number of pistol caliber carbines. my argument is classes would loose all meaning do you know how small some ships have been called cruisers, does not make it a cruiser. a name has to one fit and two be shared with enough similar things to have any meaning. i am done for tonight so have fun…
you are free to provide sources considering it as light rifle, light saber or anyother term.
.30 carbine cartridge
M1 carbine
But I guess you know better than the inventors.
again they can call it a nose hair trimmer that does not make it true
The US Light Rifle Program was the search for the weapon that would eventually become the M1 Carbine, issued by the millions in World War II and in the years after. While the M1 Carbine is a familiar item to all military rifle enthusiasts, the other rifles submitted to the Army trials are largely unknown.
The program began on October 1, 1940 when the Ordnance Department release a five page request for designs. The primary requirements for the rifle were a weight of not more than 5 pounds (with sling), effective range of 300 yards, and capability for both semiauto and fully automatic fire. The rifles had to use the .30 Carbine cartridge developed with Winchester from the .32WSL. Tests would begin a mere 4 months later, on February 1st, 1941.
Due to delays in producing the new cartridges, the tests were ultimately delayed until May of 1941. By that time, there were nine rifles submitted to the tests. Two were immediately rejected – Mr Simpson of Springfield armory had submitted a rifle that weight 6lb 10oz, and this was deemed too heavy to consider. There was also a variant of the White gas operated rifle submitted, but it was chambered for the .276 cartridge, and rejected for that reason.
The remaining seven prototypes were subjected to a battery of tests to determine which were worth further development. We have photos available of all of these designs:
J. Pearce, from Savage Arms Corp.
F.W. Woodhull, from Woodhull Corp.
V.A. Browning, from Colt
E.C. Reising from Harrington & Richardson
Mr. Bergman from Auto-Ordnance
J.C. Garand from Springfield Armory
G.J. Hyde from Bendix Aviation Corp.
For more information on the Light Rifle trials and the development and service of the M1 Carbine, I highly recommend Larry L Ruth’s book, War Baby! The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbine, Vol. 1.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------for wiki love
The M1944 Hyde Carbine was developed by George Hyde, designed to be a light rifle for the US Armed Forces. The overall weapon was based on the Thompson Submachine Gun, which Hyde drew inspiration from in many of his weapon designs.
Yeah I know. I’m using the modern definitions too. That being said, I don’t think we should reclassify the M2 Carbine as an Assault Rifle. If anything at all, it should be added to a new classification of PDW
All rectangles are quadrilaterals but not all quadrilaterals are rectangles
All battle rifles are automatic rifles but not all automatic rifles are battle rifles
“Automatic rifle” is a slightly outdated term, and works better as a “catch all” than anything else by this point. Battle rifles are rifles that are automatic and chambered in a full powered rifle cartridge. The best example is the M14. This term was retroactively created to differentiate full powered automatic rifles from full autos chambered in an intermediate cartridge, also known as assault rifles. Both categories are automatic rifles. Don’t play this game with me. The M1 is a carbine, functioned as a PDW. The M2 is a modified M1. Nothing less. Nothing more. So unless you want to make a PDW class that only Paratroopers, Tankers, Medics, and Pilots can use as that’s who were often given these types of weapons along with backline troops (ignoring that many in the US military could trade in their M1 Garand’s for M1 Carbine’s or M1 Thompson’s if available and could sweet talk the armorer enough, AND that there are a number of instances of field modifications to the sear of the M1 Carbine to make it automatic)
I’m sorry did you just confuse .30 Carbine with .303 British?
.30 happy and know i got the name confuse with the 303 round of the stringfield 1903
And the BAR is an automatic rifle, yet we used it in the LMG roll, and all but a very select few games also put it in the LMG roll. The M1 was used for backline troops and those such as paratroopers and ammunition bearers as a PDW. It was even supposed to have full auto functionality from the get go but that requirement was dropped. Eventually brought back because of StG and M2’s began production as well as modification kits sent to the field to modify M1’s. Its roll did not change after this. It was still a PDW for backline, and a light and compact rifle for those who benefited with it vs a full sized M1 Garand
That’s 30-03
Kinda says it there as well that it became Carbine. Not light rifle, not little bit too long smg, not short rifle, less weighting rifle or rifle with less recoil to suit underage conscripts.
Carbine.
As it was designed to carbine role by its user and inventors, I find it quite pointless what it should be.
As we already know what it was, carbine.
mt point is not that the M1 M2 were not carbines but that they should not have been up to that point what they were not carbines, what came after were carbines of assault rifle not-rifles. i give up you are wrong the M1 M2 are wrong if they and the Hyde are carbines that word looses all meaning.
it would be like calling the Grafe-spe a cruiser because the built the Alaska latter. Which i would but the British called it a pocket battleship so which is it. seeing how cruisers were limited to 8 inch, and the spee is not a battle cruiser. yes the argument is the point it fits neither with cruiser or battleship bso like the hyde 44 what is it.
Dunno, fits to every criteria of carbine.
Id say its quite irrelevant.
For who carbines are designed and such havent changed.
Quite sure they are all products of the same project and fits just fine for what they were intended to use carbine.
Probably call them as theyr inventors and users called them ?
Like carbine ?
Tankers and Pilots can run around with the Thompson 30 cal SMG so your point falls kinda short and that gun is similar to the M1944 Hyde barring a few differences in control and mag capacity.
by youre reasoning half the smgs are not smgs but pdw, i mean based on the modern use of smg and pdw
Automatic rifle in the old sense was basically the same as the modern LSW or SAW or sim.
And that is what I mean when I use that term.
Except battle rifle also applies to semi-auto rifles. It’s a specialization term.
What differentiates an automatic rifle from a battle rifle is its purpose, best examples being the L1 and L2 in British service. Despite both being FAL’s, one was used as a support weapon, the L2, whilst the other was used as the standard service rifle, the L1. As in, the latter was a battle rifle whilst the former was an automatic rifle.
Just as the AVT-40 was supposed to function as an automatic rifle, whilst the SVT-40 was a battle rifle.
I repeat: modification doesn’t mean that a reclassification hasn’t occurred. If I make a PCC fully automatic, that means that it is now an SMG, it doesn’t remain a PCC.
Problem with that is that .30 Carbine isn’t a goddamn PDW cartridge… it’s a light/intermediate rifle cartridge…
Traditionally PDW cartridges are necked down pistol cartridges with rifle caliber bullets. (And then the russians decided that a 9mm is also that because fuck it I guess)
Alright, counter argument from my friend
The M1 and M2 Carbine’s do not achieve the effective range requirement for Assault Rifles
It’s a 3-5 MOA gun? Frick. Didn’t know that
I’m sorry, but your friend is just wrong.
It’s not an assault rifle if it’s semi-automatic.
There are way more intermediate cartridges than that, including .30 Carbine depending on who you ask
Pistol grip is not a requirement…
If effective range was a qualifier, the AKS-74u wouldn’t be an assault rifle either
And here’s an proper example of an assault rifle in .30 Carbine:
CEAM Modèle 1950
Well if you incist to nitpick then yes.
But the argument of range remains.
M1 with conversion kit to fully automatic or just M2 are still practically the same gun. The fully automatic option doesnt magically increase the range.
Quite sure its classified as carbine or pdw ?
And the effective range indeed is a qualifier in definition of assault rifle.
Which aks-74u meets just fine.
