That’s 30-03
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Kinda says it there as well that it became Carbine. Not light rifle, not little bit too long smg, not short rifle, less weighting rifle or rifle with less recoil to suit underage conscripts.
Carbine.
As it was designed to carbine role by its user and inventors, I find it quite pointless what it should be.
As we already know what it was, carbine.
mt point is not that the M1 M2 were not carbines but that they should not have been up to that point what they were not carbines, what came after were carbines of assault rifle not-rifles. i give up you are wrong the M1 M2 are wrong if they and the Hyde are carbines that word looses all meaning.
it would be like calling the Grafe-spe a cruiser because the built the Alaska latter. Which i would but the British called it a pocket battleship so which is it. seeing how cruisers were limited to 8 inch, and the spee is not a battle cruiser. yes the argument is the point it fits neither with cruiser or battleship bso like the hyde 44 what is it.
Dunno, fits to every criteria of carbine.
Id say its quite irrelevant.
For who carbines are designed and such havent changed.
Quite sure they are all products of the same project and fits just fine for what they were intended to use carbine.
Probably call them as theyr inventors and users called them ?
Like carbine ?
Tankers and Pilots can run around with the Thompson 30 cal SMG so your point falls kinda short and that gun is similar to the M1944 Hyde barring a few differences in control and mag capacity.
by youre reasoning half the smgs are not smgs but pdw, i mean based on the modern use of smg and pdw
Automatic rifle in the old sense was basically the same as the modern LSW or SAW or sim.
And that is what I mean when I use that term.
Except battle rifle also applies to semi-auto rifles. It’s a specialization term.
What differentiates an automatic rifle from a battle rifle is its purpose, best examples being the L1 and L2 in British service. Despite both being FAL’s, one was used as a support weapon, the L2, whilst the other was used as the standard service rifle, the L1. As in, the latter was a battle rifle whilst the former was an automatic rifle.
Just as the AVT-40 was supposed to function as an automatic rifle, whilst the SVT-40 was a battle rifle.
I repeat: modification doesn’t mean that a reclassification hasn’t occurred. If I make a PCC fully automatic, that means that it is now an SMG, it doesn’t remain a PCC.
Problem with that is that .30 Carbine isn’t a goddamn PDW cartridge… it’s a light/intermediate rifle cartridge…
Traditionally PDW cartridges are necked down pistol cartridges with rifle caliber bullets. (And then the russians decided that a 9mm is also that because fuck it I guess)
Alright, counter argument from my friend
The M1 and M2 Carbine’s do not achieve the effective range requirement for Assault Rifles
The M1 carbine has a maximum effective range of 300 yards (270 m), but bullet drop is significant beyond 200 yards (180 m). At 100 yards, the M1 carbine can produce groups between 3 and 5 in (76 and 127 mm).
It’s a 3-5 MOA gun? Frick. Didn’t know that
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I’m sorry, but your friend is just wrong.
It’s not an assault rifle if it’s semi-automatic.
There are way more intermediate cartridges than that, including .30 Carbine depending on who you ask
Pistol grip is not a requirement…
If effective range was a qualifier, the AKS-74u wouldn’t be an assault rifle either
And here’s an proper example of an assault rifle in .30 Carbine:
CEAM Modèle 1950
Well if you incist to nitpick then yes.
But the argument of range remains.
M1 with conversion kit to fully automatic or just M2 are still practically the same gun. The fully automatic option doesnt magically increase the range.
Quite sure its classified as carbine or pdw ?
And the effective range indeed is a qualifier in definition of assault rifle.
Which aks-74u meets just fine.
America sure created a controversial gun. Truly one of a kind. For most of history carbine was just a shortened rifle. Today since the original rifles are obsolete carbines are just shortened assault rifles so they’re basically “assault carbines”
In my opinion I believe the M2 carbine has potential to be moved to Assault
If the Assault class has automatic weapons then they would have the automatic version of the Volkssturmgewehr since it is an assault rifle, they don’t have a use for the semi automatic VG. So the same would be said for the M1/2 carbines. Riflemen can keep the semi, the M2 can go to Assault
I will say since there has long been discussions about moving autorifles to Assault if we keep the M2 classified as such it would end up being given to Assault anyway
not really. main definition of assault rifle is lightweight select fire rifle that uses intermediate cartridge.
if it uses pistol caliber, it will be smg and if it uses full rifle ammo it will be battle rifle.
range is subjective criteria from one country/army after they created pdw definition in 80s.
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well US gun, US definition
not ww2 definition and not most of cold war definition. range in their definition is relatively modern and came after they defined pdw.
Every country may have had its own definitions and standards but it’s best to keep it simple and universal
- Rifle: bolt or semi that fires a full rifle round
- Automatic rifle: select fire rifle that fires a rifle round (does it look like a traditional rifle)
- MG: fires a rifle round intended to be supported by a bipod for fire support and sustained fire (does it look like a maxim gun)
- SMG- automatic pistol caliber
- Assault rifle- automatic intermediate cartridge
The Volksturmgewehr is basically a carbine because it is SA and uses an intermediary round, so it’s fine for Riflemen
If they ever add the automatic VG it would be an assault rifle and go to Assault
The M2 Carbine is basically an assault rifle because the 0.30 is disputed as an intermediary
Actually this weapon is for everyone.
Also auto-pistol calibre either SMG or pistol… there’s no rhyme or reason
Honestly I think it has more to do with how it looks/ is held. If its just a pistol with a stock or happens to be automatic its still just a pistol
If it looks like a small rifle its primary weapon
I think it works fine
Classification already changed topic is closed
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