Fix the reasons people desert or stop worrying about desertions

Suggestions
1

So, every week I read posts from people either complaining about people deserting, or people complaining about the 20% penalty, and I always scratch my head as to why isn’t there anyone who actually thinks fixing the reasons people desert would be the best first solution? I mean, adding penalties without fixing the problems is like having a car with a hole in the gas tank, and instead of fixing the gas tank to stop fuel from running out people think increasing the gas price is the solution. :roll_eyes:

Why do people desert? Well, when your being seal clubbed, it’s not hard to figure out. :wink:

So why are people being seal clubbed?
1: Either, they suck, or the team they are playing on sucks, or both. Or they are a bunch of noobs.
2: They are a team full of solo players who got dropped into a game against a stacked group who are communicating and organized, which is almost always going to guarantee a butt mud hole stomping 99.9% of the time.
3: Some people obviously play a vast majority of the game, then desert just before the end, why? They want the rewards (small as they might be) but do not want the loss on their rank or their winning percentage. What other reason would there be if they are willing to play long enough to be a battle hero and in the top one or two on the team, yet for some reason chose to desert?

So, my solution, which I have pitched before and like the vast majority of my suggestions, just gets ignored. :yum:

1: End the rank system
2: End the win loss percentage (It’s far from accurate anyway, so why keep it?)
3: End all rewards from anyone who deserts, whether you desert in the first 30 seconds or the last 30 seconds, you quit, you get nothing, not silver, no experience, no tech tree research credit, NOTHING.
4. Give solo players the opportunity to ONLY PLAY other solo players. This would eliminate the stacked groups seal clubbing the noobs, and those who only play solo. A simple box next to the choose any faction option box would do. Simple and easy, those who want to play only other solo people can click it, those who don’t care don’t, it changes nothing if you don’t click the box, but it ensures that you will NOT be dropped into a match with or against a group.

Short of suspensions or banning of players, there is ZERO way to get rid of all desertions, however, there are ways to cut it down, and although not everyone will agree with my solutions, that is a start, and open for debate. However, until the reasons are addressed, we will continue to see high desertion rates. So, do we continue to raise gas prices to fix a leaking gas tank, or fix the leaking tank?

13 Likes
2

Not actually one of the reasons you gave, so what is the issue with it? Looks like a solution looking for a problem…

I presume this is because desertions mean you don’t have to count a win or something?? I have no idea…

A simple solution - desertions always count as a loss even if your side ends up winning.

It might put off a few people perhaps - not going to stop deserting tho.

Curious how a win/loss % isn’t accurate??

The main complaint about the penalty on here is “I was disconnected - it isn’t fair 'cos I couldn’t control it!” - this isn’t going to help that.

Probably cut down a few - certainly this is not the only reason people desert tho - as you have noted, so this isn’t a cure either.

2 Likes
3

Event win and losses are added to your factions, so, if your not actually playing with “your faction” in an event, which your not in Enlisted events they shouldn’t get a win or a loss, but they do. Every game I won or lost playing in the new Soviet/Japanese event, I got added to my Soviet or Japanese faction. Just like the stupid Cowboy and Indian event several months back, I ended up getting between 40 or 50 losses applied to my Allies, but never played with my Allies. So, your win/loss percentage is no where near accurate per faction. Maybe your overall w/l % might be accurate, IDK, but your factions % is not.

And as I said, there is no way to stop all desertions as some people when they sense there are going to lose will just quit. I think that getting a solo player box would probably stop some seal clubbings and create more competitive games for noobs and people who only play solo.

2 Likes
4

The only way to really fix this is to improve the in-game tutorial, which is sadly something that will never be done. Or at least as long as this dev team is actively working on the game.

2 Likes
5

Since there is no cure, the object should be to cut desertions numbers down. I’m sure if people put their minds to it we could come up with something that would reduce numbers. Out of all I suggested, I think the solo play option would do the most good. It’s not guaranteed to cut down on desertions, however it should cut down on the amount of seal clubbings, which lead to desertions.

6

Strongly disagree.

You’re only making the problem worse with your suggestions.

You gave the analogy of hiking petrol prices, your “solution” is like banning petrol cars altogether.

The REAL reasons people desert are:

1. Bad maps/bad gamemodes.

2. Disconnected (likely due to server side issues)

3. Relating to bad gamemodes, the player has a LIFE outside gaming.

Point One

We finally got a downvote system for maps. But it’s the AliExpress TEMU version.
What blithering idiot thought of limiting downvotes?

We are also unable to just downvote gamemodes, so we have to waste votes trying to stop the modes that suck.

Solution:

Let players blacklist gamemodes
If I were DarkFlow Id just remove Confrontation and Conquest altogether, no one likes those stupid modes which go for too long.

Let players downvote as many maps as they wish.
Since it’s a preference, I dont see why one shouldnt be allowed at least note all their preferences. Sure, there are times when you may get a less preferenced map but its better than the current system.

Use player feedback:
I am confident that certain modes and maps are pretty much universally hated. Reverse D Day and Khalif caves spring to mind for instance. Tractor Plant is at the very least controversial.

DarkFlow should actually study the data and see what is popular and what is not. We have this forum and others, find out what people like and don’t like about maps and gamemodes and use that to improve the game.
After all some maps are okay in concept they just need serious reworking to fix issues.

Point Two.
Self explanatory. Im not a computer guy so I dont know why those problems happen, but no player should ever be punished because of internet issues, especially if its DF’s fault.

Solution:
Surely there’s a way to tell the difference between lost connection and player choosing to leave of their own accord. Enlisted itself usually gives a warning ‘Disconnected’ or “Lost server connection” or something so clearly the computer knows the difference.

DF should be actively working to ensure disconnections do not happen.

I would also like to see a South East Asian/Australasian server. I believe Singapore would be a good idea since it would cover China (massive playerbase), south East Asia and Australia & New Zealand which does have a fairly decent sized playerbase.

Point Three.

It is infuriating I have to explain this to people. Not everyone has 24/7/365 to spend on a stupid computer game.
Why should you be punished for having a life outside gaming?

Let’s say youve played for 45 minutes, you have things you need to do. Now if you leave as a normal mature adult would if they are bored, frustrated and need a break, desertion penalties mean you literally just wasted that whole 45 minutes because you get nothing at all.

There are various legitimate reasons people leave, anyone who refuses to recognise that should take a shower and leave their room for once because if you think people should be on games all the time YOU have a serious problem.

Solution:

Fixing the issues outlined in Point One would help A LOT.

For example Confrontation just goes for too long. You capture a point, but then its quickly lost and now the game drags on and on for another 20 minutes.
That’s why I want it banned, either for myself or just overall cause I know I’m definitely not the only one who feels that way.

My squadmate refuses to play Conquest, and I dont blame him. We know we will only be frustrated at the stupid system and dumb players. Having multiple points to capture/defend just doesnt work in a game like Enlisted where there are lots of noob players and no coms.

As Ive argued before, Conquest in Hell Let Loose could probably work because theres coms, organised all-human squads and a human Commander delegating different tasks for each squad.

Whereas Enlisted its guaranteed to be like the whole team rushing to A, a couple guys left trying to take/hold B and C, they get smashed by the enemy team, then everyone abandons A, runs to B but then C is still left poorly defended and now theres no one at A, and so on and so forth.

Now if you enjoy Conquest and it always goes well for you, okay fine but thats not most people’s experience.
My question for you is why participate in something you know you won’t enjoy? This is an FPS game, not a real war. It’s meant to be relaxing and fun, not a frustrating slog.

My squadmate plays Enlisted when having a break from reading financial documents and analysing the share market. It’s supposed to be an enjoyable short break. Why should he be forced to play something he doesnt want to and waste a bunch of precious time?

Avoiding Confrontation/Conquest battles as soon as they appear means we avoid a stuoid battle we dont like, and also were likely to desert later on anyway cause its going too long and weve got stuff to do.

I believe its far better having a team of people who want to be there than forcing more people to join a server who dont want to stay anyway.

Time limits:
Personally in my 5 years or so of playing Ive found 20-25 minute games best. I had an 8 minute game the other day in USSR-Japan event, absolute walkover, not fun at all.
Likewise by 30 minutes we’re sick of it especially if its Confrontation where the stupid team wont capture the last damn point. 45-50 minutes is just too long.

20-25 minutes maximum is a good time frame for a decent battle; not a walkover and not a never ending slog.

Let’s say I have 25-30 minutes free before I need to go back to the stove. Now if I know that a game will go for 25 minutes max, that’s good, I can stay in the game AND cook.

But with the current system I have no idea how long the match will last. It could be over in 10 minutes.
Or, I play for 25 minutes, maybe stick around for another couple as long as I can but then have to leave because Ive gotta save the food from over cooking and the game drags on for another 15 minutes so I am kicked and penalised.

As a real life adult you do this thing called time management. It is a lot easier to do so if you know how long a task will take. I see no reason why a max 25 minute timer cannot be added to Enlisted.

The timer would help even for gamemodes, for myself while I hate confrontation Id be more comfortable staying in a confrontation match if I knew that it was guaranteed to be no longer than 25 minutes.

If Ive only got 15 minutes I wont join a battle at all because again I know beforehand how long its actually going to take.

Now for those of you who want a longer gaming session, that’s okay, just rejoin a new battle after the first ends.
You want to play for an hour? Fine, just play two 20-25 minute rounds.
Remember with the current system you could join and the match only lasts 10 minutes, so its a win-win knowing how long a match will actually be.

Longer Idle Time.
War Thunder has a reasonable AFK time. I dont know what it is but its much better than Enlisted.

Enlisted playerbase needs to understand that SH^T HAPPENS. Someone’s at the door, the phone rings, you really need to use the bathroom, Grandma wants help with the groceries etc.

You should be able to go AFK for a reasonable time and return to the game. I understand being idle affects the server, hence there is an eventual limit.

I have been in the same room, turned my back to help a family member with important computer questions, turned back and bam Ive been kicked. My “being idle” wouldve been a minute at most.

I had every intention of returning to the game. Why should I be punished for this, and for multiple battles at that?

Punishing people for multiple days because they got disconnected or they had to go help their mother is stupid, wrong and very immature.

No wonder the playerbase is shrinking when youre just pissing people off.

For myself I say very honestly that Ive never found ‘deserters’ to be an issue. What is an issue is lack of marking, no rallypoints, not attacking/staying on the objective, and just generally dumb teammates.

Why are you all so determined to punish that guy who left cause he’d played for an hour and had homework to do when the rest of the ‘remainers’ are just sitting around having a CWA meeting in game anyway?

Once again referring to point one, if half the team supposedly deserts I strongly believe this says more about that match/gamemode than it does said players. I really dont blame someone who leaves cause theyre getting absolutely steamrolled. That shouldnt happen in the first place.

If youre getting steamrolled from the moment you first spawn, by the time youre onto the third objective clearly it doesnt matter whether theres 10 players or 5, youre getting smashed either way, probably due to poor balancing or map design on DF’s part.

FYI I personally have never left because was being steamrolled or beaten for example. And yes, I have no time for those guys who get sniped once and rage quit. But they are very rare and its really not beneficial or right to destroy the playerbase just to satisfy some silly personal crusade against a couple crybabies. (who you will encounter in any game no matter how many penalties you add)

5 Likes
7

This is why I started this thread, not to find people in agreement or disagreement with my ideas, but get people’s inputs on things we can do in the desertion area. The more perspectives we get, the better chance people can come to an agreement on what needs to be changed.

BTW, my fuel leak analogy. The gas tank is the people playing enlisted, the fuel leaking out of the tank are deserting players, and the raising of the gas prices are Gaijin adding penalties for desertions. The obvious solution is to fix the hole in the gas tank to stop fuel from leaking. :joy:

3 Likes
8

Fair. Thank you for being open to different perspectives.

I’m disappointed the playerbase cant seem to come to an agreement on what the problems are (i.e why people desert), instead focusing on what new punishments can be added. I stand by my arguments above which I believe are the reasons.

Not wanting to play stupid gamemodes/maps
Unable to pause the game for a couple minutes to handle those real life interruptions that inevitably occur
Disconnected for reasons outside players control.

One thing I forgot to mention that some people have agreed on is rewarding ‘remainers’ rather than punitively punishing ‘deserters’.

Hell Let Loose does this, there’s a big XP win for those that stay to the end (in recognition that HLL matches go for like 2-3 hours).

4 Likes
9

My late wife never agreed with me, so I had to learn to accept different perspectives. :rofl:

BTW, I fully agree with you on the maps ect.

3 Likes
10

obviously not, but highlights rather well how desertion penalty is quite unjust.

Since the entire penalty was made due to certain people thinking they lost because theyr team left OR stacks being butthurt no one wants to waste time on unfair game.

Yet these unfair games remains, stacks dont have to wait in que untill they get another stack against them.
No sbmm, no nothing.
Also no proper map selection ( regardless this isnt a balance issue )

So in summary, theres penalty for people that leaves but every reason for leaving still exist.

3 Likes
11

The only 2 reasons I ever desert:

  1. The game puts me into Low BR Berlin with biplanes over Reichstag
  2. The game puts me into High BR Stalingrad/Rzhev with Panthers near Univermag
3 Likes
12

Perfectly fine suggestion, except point 3.

Considering how bad the connection can be at times, this is a terrible idea, and it really needs to stop going about, your not the first Ive seen push it.

3 Likes
13

This completely, we need to give out the carrot and stop abusing the stick.

4 Likes
14

I would have said “mopping the floor rather than plugging the leak”, to be a bit more elegant.

A ranking system based entierly on how well your games go rather than how well you are doing in it is certainly a head scratcher. People get medals and promotions even after losing battles, because their individual actions were still meritorious. The game should take som inspiration from when designing a new system.

Agreed. What’s the point? It’s innaccurate, and easily fooled and has no bearing on anything else inside the game, just remove it.

Agreed. Leaving means you don’t care about the game, then you should in turn get nothing from it. Fair’s fair.

Agreed, that or making sure the ammount of stacks are balanced on both teams. I should not have to feel the need to queue up in groups just to get a fair shot in the game, nor should I get to stomp those unfortunate souls that got matched against me trying to avoid the exact same problem.

Solo play should be fair and balanced, and so should playing in teams be.

Treat the cause, not the symptoms, a leasson many need to learn.

Overall, I’m just happy that people like you and @CaptainBeel are actually interested in solving the problems of the game, rather than punishing people not wanting to put up with them. I’m not even a serial deserter, I can count the games I’ve left out of frustration on one hand, but you’d have to be very ignorant to say that there aren’t real and valid grievances with the game in it’s current state, be that horrible gamemodes, poor matchmaking, or wierd rank/win seekers, and those things deserve to be addressed.

15

I guess I’d make that the difference between hitting the “desert” button and loosing connection?

Now, it’s entierly fair to point out that some people would be removing their ethernet cable as a workaround in this case, but lets be honest, if someone is dedicated enough to think of it then go through the fuss of removing it then putting it back again after a few moments… well the game itself has some issues if you feel like that fuss is worth it…

16

Incentives to continue playing is universaly better than penalties for not playing, one thing both brings people back and makes them less likely to leave in the first place, the other is just a indescriminate slap in the face.

What penalties have done for decreasing desertions, have instead been moved over to people AFKing instead. WOnderful change, one that no one could have predicted, absolutely genius. Almost like treating the symptoms doesn’t actually solve anything. :thinking:

3 Likes
17

I mean serial deserters will do that, Its also the fact I dont trust gaijin to make a suitable system to detect that.

I mean I know for my setup, I can remove the ethernet cable with my foot and plug it back in, very easily at that.

1 Like
18

Oh yes, I’m not denying that they won’t.

Just pointing out that if someone feels the need to do that, I think the game has on some level failed. I guess my setup is a bit wonkier that some, I need at least three fingers to jank my cable, it has a catch I need to loosen first, but I should not assume it’s as much of a fuss for everyone, fair.

19

I mean just make leaving an instant Loss for statistics. People who need to leave for irl things wont mind because they have lives, and it will deter the serial deserters.

1 Like
20

source (1)

Still relevant, so I’ll post the melting pot of usual answers from pro desertion players:

Ohohohoh

4 Likes