Firerate overhaul

[GeneralBrus]

Its not a big secret that weapons rate of fire are not very accurate in Enlisted.

MG42 is the most famous example with its 900rpm + weapon upgrade compared to 1200+ in the real world.

From a historical accuracy standpoint this is bad, however I want to specifically talk about how Enlisted messes up fire rate on most weapons because of something different.

Powercreep, weapon upgrades and remnants of the old campaign system that caused this inaccuracies in the first place.

Back during Moscow, when all MGs got nerfed, Germany suddenly couldn’t compete with Soviet drum mag SMGs anymore, because up to the nerfs Germany relied heavily on their supperior MGs.

As a first solution, the sniper MKB got introduced.
However to make this weapon viable considering it was in the hands of arguably the worst squad type of the game - the snipers - it had its rate of fire artificially increased.

It is very clear that STG style weapons had a slow rate of fire of about 500 rpm, which the devs then later added correctly with Assaulter MKB and its 500rpm.

The Sniper MKB has - just like many other weapon examples has the wrong rate of fire for balance reasons from the old campaign system - powercreep needed to happen in order to counter the enemy gun of the same campaign lvls.

This same powercreep is why MP40 has a higher rate of fire than its very simmilar MP38.

Or why MP43/1 has a slower rate of fire than STG44, even though both sould have around 500 rpm like the MKB.

There are other ways to make a gun “better” than just with rate of fire.

This whole issue with fire rates is an indirect remnant of the old campaign system and should be corrected to fit better into HA.

We should have a nerd discussion and look at all weapons rate of fire and reevaluate it.

[GeneralBrus]

Also, the Kiraly for example supposedly also has a too high rate of fire - which also came from the fact that MKB couldn’t compete with PPSH, so a weapon with super high rate of fire got added as a counter.

However Kiraly does not have to be a counter to PPSH anymore, the BR system allows for a HA correction.

[VoyoMayPL]

#make rof historical again finally

[SpedTable]

@GeneralBrus

Back during Moscow, when all MGs got nerfed, Germany suddenly couldn’t compete with Soviet drum mag SMGs anymore, because up to the nerfs Germany relied heavily on their supperior MGs.

As a first solution, the sn

MG42 also depended on the weight of the bolt so it is accurate

But I agree that some weapons need their fire rate reworked. Like PPS guns

[WalterSpeering]

There are more weapons with wrong rof:

• PPS42/43: ~100 too much (many sources show around 500 (pps42) and 600 (pps43)
• Federov Avtomat: Some sources say 350-400, some confirm 600
• FNAB-43: way to slow, the rof was 600-800
• ZB-26: 750 → 500
• MG34: 800 → 900. Early versions could change the fire rate via switch (600 - 1000)
• AS-44: 650 → 600
• Johnson M1941: 900 → 450. It also has the option to increase the rof with different bolts, but +100% is just ridiculous)

(each value depends on source)

The MP40, MKb42 “H”/“W” and most other machine guns/submachine guns, specially the US/GB ones, are fairly correct (well, it depends on source I guess…).
We dont need to talk about the MG42 - this gun is portrayed worse than CoD did.

A correct rof for the StG44 would be fair and nice - I love the iconic powerfull sound at 550 rpm.
Just an idea: Correct both the StG44 and AS-44 to 600 rpm. Should be a good compromise. I once saw a clip where a MkB42H was fired - it fires a bit slower than the StG44, so the difference of ~100 rpm should between both guns should be okay.

[WalterSpeering]

@SpedTable

MG42 also depended on the weight of the bolt so it is accurate

No, it is just the worst option. The rof varied between 900 and 1500 with different bolts, so why not just adjust the rof to solid 1200. That would be fair.
The Johnson M1941 has a “normal” fire rate of about 400-450 rpm and the option to increase it with different bolts. Ingame this gun has 900 rof (!!!). The axis gun got decreased to the lowest option, the US gun got +100% rof…

[SpedTable]

Well in my opinion, you probably wouldn’t want a 1200 rpm with only 50 rounds and a lengthy reload. 900-1000 is fair in my opinion.

[WalterSpeering]

873500 people want the correct rof. 900 is a joke and 1000 are still 500 rpm away from its maximum.
1200 is perfect - right between 900 and 1500.

[SlavicUnionGamin]

@WalterSpeering

We dont need to talk about the MG42 - this gun is portrayed worse than CoD did.

Every Historical Inaccuracy in Call of Duty 2

calling any of the ww2 cod-based games accurate is a complete joke. if anything enlisted is far more precise than the cod games in a lot of things

[Alex_von_Konig]

The rate of fire of the stg 44 is 600 rounds per minute, but with a different spring it can be 650. Another thing is that talking about an overestimated rate of fire of weapons is meaningless, because historical samples compete against paper. The MKB 42 had a lower rate of fire, about 500-550, but the sniper has a rate of fire of stg 44 and the base is close to the history of the lower threshold. At one time, during Moscow, I asked to give the mkb 42 a rate of 550 shots (he was fighting against Fedorov at that time), but I was sent to the stump. Therefore, there is no point in arguing with the rate of fire of a part of the weapon, it is correct.

[LM4_Luna]

soviet manual for PPS-42 mentions 600-700, and I would rather trust domestic data than American intelligence one that was wrong on a lot of occasions yet is persistent enough among western sources.

Fedorov: it was mentioned already on the forum somewhere, but soviet manual, once again, mentions 600 rpm and not 350-400 that americans do

I’d also include Reising M50 and M55 that on all occasions should be at least 650-750 RPM and not 500-550 that was listed as such as a marketing ploy to show that “yes, our smg is slower than thompson and therefore better now please choose us”. Devs already gave real RoF to M1 Thompson and not the theoretical one, so it won’t be that oit of place anyway.

EDIT: right, since we are talking about rates of fire, I’ll mention my friend’s post here, because it’s, once again, a possible example of an american mistake spreading worldwide:

Type 100 early correct rate of fire

This has been a long standing mistake in all sorts of games and web pages. But before I show some sources lets have a “brief” introduction into the terminology I will be using. Introduction Model 3 = Name for a few SMGs that would develop into the initial Type 100 SMG. Visually they’re very similar to the Type 100 and there are about 4 variations but lets not get into that here. Q: Why Model 3 instead of Type? A: Because Type 3 would imply 1943 adoption after the Japanese calendar (Imperia…

EDIT #2:
Also remembered these guns that could be adjusted:

DShK - 850 → 600 (600-1200 from russian sources is a carryover from DS-39 that actually had this function, DShK didn’t afaik)
MP35/I - 540 → 650 (relatively fast firing SMG irl that is def faster than STGs)
MP28 - 480 → 600 (Lanchester has this rate of fire already, it wouldn’t hurt anybody and would go along nicely with boosted rate of fire for Reising and Type 100)
“MP28 (7.65mm)” - 480 → 600 (literally the same gun as “SIG 1920”)
MP38/40 - from 500 to at least 540-550 (maybe 540 for 38 and 570 for 40 to keep the trend of earlier SMGs having less RoF than later in spite of it not necessary being the case irl, see PPS-42 and PPS-43 that had their rates of fire switched around)
M3(A1) Grease Gun - from 380(410) to 450 (we are past the point where average RoF is listed and not maximum one, see PPS once again)

[VoyoMayPL]

Um, I don’t care?
MG42 is a very iconic ww2 gun and it’s famous for it’s high rof, so I want it with it’s iconic rof. I play ww2 game so I expect to see iconic ww2 guns, not some watered down versions that just look similar.

If someone thinks 1200 rpm of MG42 is too much for him, he can always switch back to MG34 with 900 rpm.

[robihr]

@WalterSpeering

900 is a joke and 1000 are still 500 rpm away from its maximum.
1200 is perfect - right between 900 and 1500.

it should be 1200 cause it was like that in its stock configuration, not cause it was in the middle of 900 and 1500. 900 rof was for heavy bolt and 1500 rof was for planes.

[GeneralBrus]

Exactly, MG 42 was mass produced, as such a standard rate of fire for the infantry existed - which was almost always 1200 rpm

[gastanofrizzi]

Mg42 fire rate dependent on the bolt used on the gun, different bolt different fire rate, the current used one is the bolt capping the gun at 900rof stock

So is false

@GeneralBrus

MG42 is the most famous example with its 900rpm + weapon upgrade compared to 1200+ in the real world.

The real world one fired with 900rof if the soldier using the gun believed was better lower the fire rate for avoid waste ammo

[robihr]

@gastanofrizzi

The real world one fired with 900rof if the soldier using the gun believed was better lower the fire rate for avoid waste ammo

overall it didnt matter if mg42 had 900 rof or 1200 rof, when soldiers fired in bursts so they dont overheat the barrel. not to mention they needed to change barrel every 150-200 rounds making practical rof way lower.

[GeneralBrus]

This is WW 2, soldiers didn’t simply buy a different bolt at Amazon and switched them out - infantry got the 1200 rpm MG42, not 900rpm

[gastanofrizzi]

@GeneralBrus

infantry got the 1200 rpm MG42, not 900rpm

Different bolt different job as in reality and as in game is showed, moving soldier with it use heavy bolt, slower the fire rate and help to controlling the recoil in full auto, emplacement mg42 use light bolt and have higher fire rate because is usually fixed somewhere and the recoil isn’t a issue

Also a better move instead of ask to add more more fire rate in the current one (who is gonna be a huge nerf for the low ammo it use), you should ask to add a new one with 250rd and 1200 rof stock in the tech tree

[GeneralBrus]

@gastanofrizzi

Also a better move instead of ask to add more more fire rate in the current one (who is gonna be a huge nerf for the low ammo it use), you should ask to add a new one with 250rd and 1200 rof stock in the tech tree

Well a 1200 RPM MG42 with 100 + belt deserves to be a BR5 gun, and you are right that this would be the better solution to the MG42 problem.

However the HA argument that you are making seem not correct. You made me going to look for sources about 1200 rpm MG42 as the most used standard infantry version, when I have some free time.

900 rpm was not common.

[robihr]

@gastanofrizzi

you should ask to add a new one with 250rd and 1200 rof stock in the tech tree

i think that any lmg with over 100 rounds should not be available as run and gun MG. they should also fix stinger ammo box capacity so it has 100 rounds.