However it is a fair point, despite your antagonizing tone.
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Okay. I apologize.
In that case, I’ve badly assumed your intent.
Which is to push a separate tech tree for each minor nation.
And using this argument with “over cluttered” tech trees as one of your points in your argumentation. 
I highly doubt so. Italian equipment is very limited and it’s not fun to play the same things over and over again.
Japan is anything but an underdog.
- It has one of the best infantry weapons pools. (It only suffers from bad semi rifles, which is completely irrelevant, as it doesn’t take very long to rebuild a BR 3-4)
- Japan has the best SF rifle, which can replace the role of missing AR quite easily.
- Their BR2 AT launchers can destroy any US tank. Just on jumbo to super pershing they have to go from that side.
- They have absolutely great BR5 fighters
- They have a sword for every soldier, they have lunge mines with 180 pene…
- They have one of the best player base. (if not the best)
Hungary is not Italy. And Enlisted is not WT.
I still fail to see difference between case of MP38/MP40 and MP43/StG44.
Because I am triggered.
I really fail to see what’s so beneficial in having “uncluttered” tech tree. And even more so in having seperate tech trees for each minor nation.
Seperate tech trees for minor nations are nonsense. I will no longer be allowed to combine squads and equipments from several nations. Even though they fought side by side pretty commonly.
Just another unnecessary restriction for this awesome WW2 sandbox…
No, thanks.
They are already giving the copypasted captured AT Launchers for tech trees in need of better AT weapons… Separating those trees into individual minor nations would eventually mean exactly that. Just inevitably more copy paste in the name of balance.
Enlisted is not WT. Enlisted is its own thing. You should respect it.
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I guess this screenshot speaks for itself, that preset is my main set up.
You’re absolutely right, which is why i have called for the nerfing of the Type Hei Auto and the Removal of the Ho-Ri many times.
True, of course. But they would complement eachother splendidly.
I’m working on it. probably for tommorow its 4am here.
These are good points. I admit it does make me reconsider my opinion on this.
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I have my own Italian preset as well. But it doesn’t mean I am playing it often.
Still waiting for Italian APC.
Huh?
Just like is German (aka European Axis) tech tree now. And there’s no reason in dividing it between several minor tech trees.
Thank you.
I wouldn’t be against specific minor naitonbranches (aka sub tech trees) to be added into current tech trees.
It’s obvious devs wasn’t focusing on minor nations since release of merge (without few exceptions like Chinese premium squad and French event squad).
And there’s definitely potential here for the future.
Regarding the so-called “clutter”.
This could be solved quite simply. And I think I’ve already written this somewhere before.
As we are speaking, currently are tech trees divided into Tiers. These Tiers do not have much meaning. They’re just currently conceptualized as a sort of protection against rushing through the whole tree exping only one line. (Without ever touching other lines). Since you always need a certain amount of equipment to unlock the next tier
My idea is this. That once you’ve unlocked the next tier. You could start grinding any line in that new tier.
Example:
In tier 1 you were only interested in the rifle line, the smg line and the MG line.
Once you researched and purchased them, you would have enough items to unlock the second tier.
But in this new tier, you could choose to start with any line from scratch. For example, the tank line. Even if you didn’t touch the tank line in the first level.
(But if you wanted the last tank of the first level, you would still have to grind the entire tank line in the first level).
I hope this description is clear. My english is not very good rn. The more tired I am, the worse english I have.
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But look at all the Italian Premium squads I have. I spent a ton of money on Italy because I love playing them so much.
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I appreciate the concept of this, but I think there’s a lot of meta items (Italian or otherwise) removed in your tree, but aren’t substituted. Best example is the SMG situation in unlock tiers 2 and 3, where your only options are MP 3008, MP 38, and MP 40. I would at least consider foldering MP 38 and MP 40, moving MP.35/I from BR 4 to BR 2, and place all of those within BR 2 unlock, and move ZK 383 to BR 3. Then MP.SS.42 could be placed at BR 4. 72 round magazine, 600RPM (allegedly), 9x19mm parabellum.
This comes from a place of wanting to see the Germany tree decluttered as well. I appreciate your effort put into the post!
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The idea behind this is solid, however I’d like it more if each tiers are just non linear amalgamation of axis weapons and vehicles in the same power and characteristics so players can choose whatever gun/vehicle from whatever country they want.
This will help @CaptainBeel with his generic squad idea so players can quickly build whatever faction lineup they want. However, to move to the next tier of weapons and vehicles players would need to unlock certain amount of items first as to not allow clueless beginners to rise too rapidly to BR V and ruining the match even more like they did with BR II
The same goes for Allies tech tree.
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Great suggestion. The MP 35 also never made any sense to me. I will implement your recomendations.
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it’s hard to point out how wrong this thread is on so many level.
and i can’t see to why as anyone would agree on removing things.
that’s why foldering is essential.
i can tell you they will not put in the bin things they have worked on.
as devs stated, there will be no italian or UK tech tree.
which it’s just dumb too.
people who want to mix units will not be able too. and nothing limits you to just not use them.
again, we have lot of equipment which are worth of being subfolders. but out righted removed just because you don’t like them?
no.
because again, if you don’t like them or don’t find any reason to use them,
then don’t use them.
and it doesn’t seems op really understand the implication behind such drastic changes.
aka, do you think people will be happy to find out they wasted so much time grinding stuff that it would then be removed?
as it goes for the premium items, i don’t have much to say.
i do think some premium such as the stug III A, su-76, chi-ha, m8 greyhound and churchill should be TT tanks. but i don’t make the rules.
suffice to say, it can be all summed by " wishful thinking ".
yes, there are some serious foldering needed.
but no. removing items is not the answer.
especially just because they aren’t " meta ".
not everything has to be.
p.s. funny how many things were removed for being " redundant " yet the options available for each tier would literally make the whole gameplay redundant with little choices in between to use.
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While I agree with the sentiment for not only the german but also the allied and maybe the soviet tree.
Foldering is preferable to removal.
But my main annoyance here is we shouldnt have a split British and Italy tree, just have the axis faction and the Western Allies faction, and then like how subfactions work in WT, give them their own line where all that equipment can fit into.
Splitting the playerbase pointlessly is dumb, especially when both sides used each others weapons. And if you just want to say “well just add the shared weapon into both trees” that goes against your point of reducing the grind.
And to nit pick the BR’s as presented.
Tier 1
- Isnt the Stug 3A already in game as a premium, idk how you could get DF to move that into the TT (As much as I would wish for it like the Chi-Ha)
Tier 2
-
I think you were a bit too ruthless with the weapons at tier 2, there could be a second rifle and SMG there.
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Why on earth would you make these points and then place the Pz3 N in front of the Pz4 E, the N being a flat upgrade over the E. I would instead recommend the Pz3 N be moved to BR3 with its late war HEAT shell and rebalanced shell count to balance it, while the Stug 3 F could replace it at BR2. This would give BR3 Germans a really strong HE flinger while BR2 Germans would get a powerful AT weapon for use against the likes of the KV-1, T-34 and Sherman.
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Too Ruthless for already avoidable aircraft such as the Stuka D-3 which sits as an interesting option with 20mm guns.
Tier 3
-
Honestly happy enough with it as is, though my only change would be the swapping of the Stug 3 F and the Pz3 N.
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Though as you implying you would make the MP40 a BR3?
Tier 4
-
A lower BR MG42 is very nice for larp, fuck you for thinking its fine to remove, folder it if you must.
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See point above of just making it an axis faction instead of doing dumb shit like removing the M38A despite it being used by the Germans too. Side note about the M38, we so fucking need an event squad with the “Samurai” ammo carrier for the M38.
Tier 5
-
Again id be sad to see so much larp weaponry removed, especially the Jagdpanzers.
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Otherwise apart from the MG 15 I’m fairly fine with it, even if the refusal to coexist with the Italians is dumb.
@Adamnpee I agree, removal of items which will in the long term only screw over newbies is just odd, all for foldering and reducing the grind though, admittedly atm I really dont think the grind is an issue, you can complete the entire grind for the game in the time it takes you get about 1 tree to 8.7 in WT.
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Yes.
The lack of grind in live service game that’s all based around it is kinda problem.
I really don’t think we should be reducing the time necessary for grinding all the stuff in the game any further.
It already has been reduced way too much in previous few months.
Instead, I think we should make more items optional. Either by foldering them only by some other way.
I already presented my idea here in this topic.
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No I disagree there, it was reduced perfectly, making it harder and gatekeeping newer players is dumb, same reason I hate the idea of removal of weapons.
But yes foldering of items and making them optional is 100% the way to go forward, clean up the trees while allowing new players to still get the items they want/need.
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You are wrong, because it wasn’t any kind of gatekeeping.
It’s not like they reduced grind by 50% or more
Sunk cost fallacy: our tendency to continue with an endeavor we’ve invested money, effort, or time into—even if the current costs outweigh the benefits.
But maybe I should’ve been more clear, just like in WT when they removed the Panther II, Maus and 10.5cm Tiger II, If you already have them you keep them.
Yeah and people who are wishing for things like the Battle of Hong Kong and Operation Compass will never have the chance to experience these battles authentically. I see your point however, and it is a good and valid point. On many ocasion Hungarian, Italian and Romanian forces where under German command, especially during Barbarosa.
Again, if you already got it you can keep it. I will edit the post to clarify this.
Things that were removed for being redundant are things that are near exact copies, like the Pre War K98k and Bf 110 C-7.
I agree that there are many useless weapons in the game, but that is because they are too weak for their BR, these weapons should get lower BR or a little buff but removing them won’t happen, Darkflow has never removed any from the game yet.
We been over the subfaction things, most players want mixed British-American and mixed Italian-German line ups, so instead of adding them as “new” factions which is a dead end, they should rework tech tree instead to accomodate Italians, future Hungarian, Romanian equipment ect.
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THis is also a great Idea as long as I am also able to queue into matches with only Italian teams. Like I said to @ErikaKalkbrenner there are campaigns where only the Italians or British were present like Operation Compass and The Battle on Hong Kong.
I was hearing you out until here, why must you be disrespectful?
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not quite.
one may view it that way,
i, on the other hand, view it as shrinking content just for the sake of redundancy.
but does it really benefit the whole playerbase?
foldering for new players should be a must.
but at the cost of preventing them from using other weapons?
( can’t believe this, but ) even reddit users are constantly asking what’s X or how can Y be obtained.
and that’s just limited to event and some premium squads.
what you want to do, ( ideally ) should be the opposite.
not to create confusion and frustration for people that didn’t got specific items.
( like SG did initially at the merge for the Mp, mannlicher, panzer IV G, breda 30 & t34 stz )
i’m sorry, but authencity in enlisted died when the merge released. ( and to be fair, even in the alpha there were many wide cracks about the actual validicity of it’s authentic historical settings )
it serves no one clinging on an unhealthy dose of copium beliving in false claims ( albe it made by the advertisment team that still promotes the same lies to this day )
and i’m not sure how would be any different from italians in berlin, or moroccan / partisans in tunisia.
which, the only way, to get precisely that ,would be through mod.
but i’m sorry to sound rude, it kinda has nothing to do with those who do want mixed units to get and use different things.
it’s enlisted after all. some sort of sandbox. and it should be that way.
except, they aren’t inherently copies.
they have different sight, slighlty different stats and even armament in some occasions.
i don’t see why you would think limiting options for new players outright removing equipment is a good idea.
part of the enlisted experience ( but… to be fair, that was only for me. so it may not apply to everyone, nor it should ) is to try the equipment, see what you like, and use it.
even if it’s not effective.
you are also precluding people from trying different weapons.
even if has marginal differences gatekeeping equipment.
the choice of them not using them should be based on their own preferences. not outright regulated and made inaccessible to them.
it sounds to me you are using the HA card.
do we really want to go down that rabbit hole?
because i’m not trying to be rude, but it’s delusion at this point.
and somewhat failing at grasping reality around you.
you can’t just make it up.
if you really want to make german HA, you’re not going to have a great time.
especially when other factions uses non historical equipment too.
but good luck having fun with pumas or panzer III N with last ditch weapons towards the lates stages of the war. i personally do it because it’s my own challenge, but i can guarantee you 70% of the playerbase would not like it.
hell, even current german mains somehow struggles with the best equipment at br v ( according to them because something something, not having an mg42 250 rounds or an effing mouse ).
on the other hand, like it is now, vs weapons are low br because those things aren’t really performing passed br III. which you’ll see them in tunisia, moscow, normandy and even the bulge.
which it’s not authentic either.
so again, i’m afraid we’ll have to agree to disagree.
but i can’t see this going through.
i’ll give you this much.
the base equipment looks alright.
the foldering are somewhat on points.
i just wouldn’t remove the equipment for the sake of it. again, just folder it.
it will be up to players to decide whether they want to use certain item or not.
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They are copies for all practical pupouses. If you want to collect all ww2 vehicles you can play War Thunder.
You’re ultimately right. I am working for a proposal for a scenarios mode and a Realistic mode that would alliviate some of the Historical innacuracies, but by-in-large, yes, I have given up on true HA. the game is only a couple of steps away from reaching CoD Vanguard levels of bullshitery.
The best we can hope for is to have a game mode where all prototype stuff is not included and teams look like they belong(No weird out of place units).
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Because that was such a bad take I had to, you know damn well it was a dumb idea as well, like should we remove all Thompsons from the game except the 50 round drug? No ofc not, thats just stupid.
If you want to ignore it all because your feeling were hurt go ahead, who am I to stop you.