Add STEN MK V to BR 3 or 2

[Cringemacht]

Buddy, they gave STG 44 more than 500 rpm

[Valkay]

StG44 historically had around 500-600 rpm so maybe it’s the “weapon upgrade”.
AS-44 also has 660 rpm while its historically 600 rpm.

[GENxCatrenko-live]

@Valkay

Sten mk.V (and maybe Patchett as well) can accept 50 round Lanchester mags.

@Valkay

Sten mk.V with 50 round Lanchester magazine

The Sten´s development did not stop with the success of the mk.II, the mk.V was upgraded with more comfortable wooden stock and wooden grip to help control recoil, bayonet mount added and the sight was replaced with that of a SMLE sight.
Stens could also accept Lanchester magazines, with a decent 50 round mag the mk.V could be a great weapon choice of British squads in high BRs.

This would make a good br4 weapon in the US TT.

[OggeKing]

Well, trouble is that this variation is made up, we got no evidence that the 50 round Lanchester magazines were used on anything other than on the Lanchesters of the Royal Navy.

I do believe in making theoreticly possible variations based on what we already got access to, for example many Japanese semi-auto rifles have scope-rails built into them, but as far as we know they were never utalized in combat in real life, but we’ve got the scopes, the rifles and their mountings, so I see no reason not to make it a thing in game, more plausable than paper guns. We’re the commanders of our own companies in the game, we can make descisions that people in real life did not, based on the things we got access to, this is perfectly fine.

This principle, however, must be tempered with what we know from history, the current example of the 50 round Lanchester is a event gun, and as such no other weapon utilizing this magazine should be more common than it. I’m fine with (happy even, with) more event guns (indepenent or as part of squads, I prefer the earlier) but they should not be anything more than event or premium weapons, not as part of the tech tree.

[CapitalLen]

Considering that the Sten Mk V is mostly just a Sten MK II but with fancier fittings it only makes sense to put it in BR2. I don’t think making it a clone of a Lanchester is a very interesting idea however. If I had to spitball a rough hypothetical alternative idea on the spot then one concept I have is to give it basically the same stats as the MK II except that it has much lower recoil/better recoil control thanks to improved ergonomics and presumably greater weight due to the new wood furniture (maybe as little recoil as the Type 2a if that’s what it takes to make it balanced at BR2, but probably not). Also give it a bayonet of course considering it just uses the regular Lee-Enfield one, as opposed to the MK II’s weird bespoke bayonet which was basically never used in practice.

@OggeKing

A great British BR III alternative would be the Patchett

If claims that the Patchett was field tested during the war are true then I would support it being added to the tech-tree, otherwise I’m hesitant about the idea as the Western Allies aren’t in dire need for another BR3 SMG. Also I’m going to imagine that the gun would require that low recoil and dispersion to be quite extreme in order to work at BR3.

[c4qph2]

@Cringemacht

STEN MK V

In black furniture

[OggeKing]

@CapitalLen

Considering that the Sten Mk V is mostly just a Sten MK II but with fancier fittings it only makes sense to put it in BR2.

My thoughts exactly, it’s just a Sten Mk II but refined, a two BR jump feels unwarranted, BR II is for the best.

@CapitalLen

I don’t think making it a clone of a Lanchester is a very interesting idea however.

I actually don’t mind this, I know a lot of people desperately want guns to be different for the sake of being different, but I believe this to be misguided. Better to try and represent them as truthfully as possible.

Not that you need worry too much, because I expect them to be ever so slightly different even with authentic representtion. Lanchester with its 600rpm and the Mk V with its 550 rpm but better recoild (due to better ergonomics, ie wooden vertical foregrip).

@CapitalLen

If claims that the Patchett was field tested during the war are true then I would support it being added to the tech-tree

We’ve got significant evidence that 120+ examples went through field triels from the fall of 1944 onwards in Europe. They were issued to the 1st and 6th airborne, wether or not they were used in actual combat is inconclusive, all that we know is that the trial was “succesfull”, whatever that means. All this is a bunch of speculation, but personally (whatever that is worth), I prefer the word “probably” over “possibly” because I do think some were used in combat, again that is just my own theory.

Wether they were “possibly” or “probably” in use, I’d still say that’s good enough for the tech tree, way better than the T20 after all, and more Commonwealth options is sorely needed. They were in Europe, and in the hands of people with the theoretical capability to use them in active combat.

A Red-Herring

A red-herring that goes against the Patchett being used in combat is that the 1st Airborne did engage in the Battle of Arnhem, were significant ammounts of British paratroopers, and more importantly their gear, got captured by the Germans. Despite the Germans ever meticulous documention of all the various arms of their enemies, no German documentation exists that shows the Patchetts use in Arnhem, despite the 1st Airborne being one of the two divisions that recieved the gun. Why this is I have no idea, and I suspect no one else does either, maybe the Brits made sure to destroy their experimental guns before capture (plausable, don’t want new tech falling into enemy hands), maybe the Germans simply mistook it as another version of the Sten (implausable, the Germans were not prone to such mistakes, even so it would have been recorded as a new Mk of Sten, which also does not show up in their documentation), or simply they chose not to bring untested equipment into such a important operation (plausable, my subscribed theory, we know the trial continued after this battle, which persumes they still had the guns after it, unlikely if they got captured).