About Panzer III N leaving BR2

I have been trying out BR2 Germany without Panzer III N today, been playing around with my many event and premium tanks - Panzer III M, Puma with 7.5cm HEAT, and even STUG A, and they all got suddenly worth using in their own way, while previously Panzer III N simply made many of those obsolete, well outside of Panzer III M and the Stalingrad Panzer III N ofc.
But then I took the next step used only the TT tanks, here is my experience from today, first I’ll talk about the guns available, I think that makes it easier:

5cm L 60
7.5cm L 24
7.6cm Pak

So the 5 cm L60 gun is found in the Puma and Panzer III J1, which is quite nice for BR2, it reloads fast, has decent penetration and decent post pen damage, it quite easily deals with all targets it faces at BR2, while even being able to fight BR3 tanks though only really if aiming for weak spots and getting a bit lucky. I have found however that it can struggle a bit with penetration drop off at longer ranges, at the quarry map it can sometimes struggle to pen T28E sitting far in the back, which in return will take out Pumas and Panzer III J usually with just a simple hit, but in normal combat ranges, who ever hits first will win usually.

next up is the 7.5cm howitzer, and yes I absolutely felt the lack of HEAT rounds now, because the TT variants will not have access to them, however the 7.5cm howitzer is still an extremely potent infantry support gun. So yeah, my couple of fights using my Panzer IV F1 did make try to avoid enemy armor when possible, if being faced with BR3 tanks its game over, T28E can be kinda frontally destroyed, but only if close enough, some premium tanks like Matilda will have it easy to tank shots - BUT most other BR2 and pretty much all BR1 tanks will get nuked to death by Panzer IV F1! 7.5cm gun AP HE round have crazy filler and will blow up everything with weak armor in one shot, which isnt all that much of an advantage when F1 itself has poor armor, but it should be noted that it does make it useful enough in general.

7.6cm from the Marder is very straight forward - its basically just a long 7.5cm Panzer IV J gun, so it takes out all BR2 and BR3 tanks with easy, but the Marder has no armor and is open top and has to turret. So the Marder does its job even has a MG but still only mostly is a tank hunter, which is to be expected.

So - my conclusions are that the top choices for future German BR2 will be:

Puma - very poor armor and struggles on off road terrain, but has a good gun and is very fast on roads. Fair enough I guess.

Panzer III J1 - kinda weak armor, good gun nice mobility, will most likely be the future top choice and most used tank.

Panzer IV F1 - kinda weak armor, very impressive infantry support gun, rather poor penetration, but if not facing well armored opponents still very powerful. I guess a debate could be held if it deserves HEAT rounds

Marder - yeah, for those who dont like enemy grey zone tankers or being up tiered.

I know this is a HEATed topic ( wow a pun ), but personally I am convinced that Panzer III N was over performing, the mobility, the armor, the top mounted MG, the extra heat rounds and the crazy powerful HE together made it crazy OP, however I do actually fear that T28 E will now have a very easy time dealing with German armor, because they ALL have 50mm for armor max, this could be an issue.

T28 E has just like Panzer IV F1 a very powerful post pen damage gun, which would have equal problems dealing with higher armor tanks, but those no longer exist for BR2, again, Panzer III N was the only German BR2 tank with more than 50 mm of frontal base armor.

I wonder what the majority thinks about this?

5 Likes

IMO Panzer IV F1 needs HEAT shells, ideally the Hl.Gr 38C shells that are strong.
In War Thunder its a 2.3 BR tank and it will face 3.7 BR KV-1 (L-11) and 4.0 BR M4A2 Sherman in an uptier.

2 Likes

either old HEAT or better HEAT, I think since it has worse armor, no top mounted MG and I think somewhat noticeable worse mobility, adding HEAT doesnt sound bad at all. So even with HEAT Panzer IV F1 will be a reasonable nerf to Panzer III N.

4 Likes

Should have just given few HEAT shells to techtree PzIVE from the beginning, would have saved us from a world of drama.

8 Likes

might as well move STUG III F to BR2, even tho it is also only 50mm of armor, and even unlike Marder has no MG, people would still use it specifically because its HE is “kinda good enough” without MG and turret. At least considering it will be mostly just a mobile anti tank gun.

4 Likes

Completely irrelevant.

WT tanks are balanced based on only tank vs tank encounters. There’s no infantry.

I disagree that F1 desperately needs excellent anti tank capabilities. It already has excellent anti infantry capabilities. (Including having more ammo than Pz III N).

Your suggestion would put the tank on par with Pz III N and thus it could easily be put on BR3 as well.


They should just put Stugs F and G to BR2. They don’t have MGs, turrets and as high rate of fire as howizer tanks (= much worse infantry capabilities).

And there’s no real benefit in playing those stugs on BR3 when you can simply take Pz IV H now.

5 Likes

the thing is, T28E is basically the top choice for Soviets and while also having somewhat poor penetration power it also has very good HE power. T28E will not be as OP as Panzer III N, but it will most likely take its place as best anti tank and anti infantry at the same time. T28E will counter Panzer IV F1, making German players pick Panzer III J1, which is rather equal in tank to tank power but has less HE power.

1 Like

easy easy easy bro, Stug F people will agree with you, but Stug III G has 80mm of armor with just the cupola and gun as a weakspot, 90% of BR2 vehicles will have massive issues dealing with that.

2 Likes

Okey, then put only stug F down. I am not even sure if you can still buy G anyway.

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I think the devs are missing a very good opportunity with Stug III G - if it had a coax MG (which many stug variants had) it would actually be an interesting alternative to Panzer IV.

Stug III G used to be very OP back in the day because its weakspot - the flat surface above the gun - still required the penetrating shot to deal damage, and since Shermans had no AP HE, and gun breaches in general absorbed a lot of damage, taking out that Stug was very crazy difficult. Nowadays Stug III G feels tanky but manageable to deal with.

They should add a TT version of the STUG III G for BR3 but without the extra track armor to help giving some more weak spots, just so that those that are annoyed from getting one hit killed constantly because Panzer IV H and J have very easy to hit turrets with only 50mm of armor.

or maybe to make it interesting: Premium STUG III G gets a coax MG, TT Stug III G gets the shielded commanders MG - or they could even add a Stug IV with that famous “remote controlled MG”

here the stug with MG shield

and here a STUG IV with remote controlled MG and without the gun weakspot, if added together with a coax + remote MG, it could be a cool event tank for BR4. Together with Hetzer which uses the same MG. well or maybe giving them just some bonus love in the form of special AP ammo also wouldnt hurt, since Jagdpanzer IV L48 is already at BR4 and seems a bit weak.

4 Likes

Only if you ignore the mobility and armor beeing worse.
Mains love to bitch about how indestructable the 3N was but the F1 would be anything but.

4 Likes

Add Heat rounds to the Semoverte and put it at BR2, 44 of them.

1 Like

okay - this could also be done of course

also this could work for STUH 42, which could also get MGs, but with a massive 105 howitzer instead - well yeah, sry guys I got carried away, this seems off topic I guess…

are there even people against Stug III F being lowered to BR2 I wonder?

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if they had added new stug to TT and Br2 for “infantry sup” role without heat, all this drama could have been prevented but they still insist for not adding stug lol

uh… I got the premium Stug III A - and now that Panzer III N is gone, there is at least a reason to use it for its HEAT rounds, but other than that its still only has 50mm of armor - if you would add a infantry support stug without heat and the short 7.5cm gun, I dont think it had any use in BR2. Maybe as a BR1 tank, but people seem to dislike the idea of BR1 tanks getting the massive HE power of a 7.5cm howitzer.

here is my last match from some 20 minutes ago

t28e can easily deal with german armor even when there is pz3n, not to mention without it.

6 Likes

Tbh, in my view tanks and planes shouldn’t do 2 job at the same time. but giving tanks “mid” HE shells is okay I think, short of it, if germany somehow gets “good HE” spammable TT Stug it can still work and it can convince german players to be chill as long as ppl gets 20-30 kill at the start of match immedietly lol

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T28E + BT-7A/M3 Medium = superior combo to PZ3N + Puma/Pz3J1/M

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I dont know mate, Panzer III N with heat is very equal in tank vs tank power to T28E… well outside of ammo capacity ofc, and BT 7A might have a little nuke canon, its still got poor armor.